MotoGP Mugello: Lorenzo dominates, Rossi crashes, Pedrosa is second
Fall after a few corners for the Yamaha rider from Pesaro, after a contact with Bautista
Jorge Lorenzo won by dominating the Tim Italian Grand Prix in the MotoGP class. The Majorcan Yamaha rider took the lead of the race after a few corners, never relinquishing it until the end, lapping at an unsustainable pace for everyone, even for the two Honda riders, Dani Pedrosa and Marc Marquez, with Pedrosa finishing second after the fall of his team-mate. Cal Crutchlow also on the podium.
A race to forget for Valentino Rossi, however, who fell after a few corners following contact with Alvaro Bautista's Honda. The Yamaha rider was counting a lot on this race, which saw his usual fans turn out in large numbers. A truly uphill start to the world championship for the nine-time world champion, who after the podium in Qatar didn't think he would have to face all these difficulties. Ducati, on the other hand, on its home circuit, where it clocks up a lot of KM, finished in fifth and sixth place with Dovizioso and Hayden, behind Bradl, who came fourth.
Now in the world championship Pedrosa sees his lead over Lorenzo shorten, while obviously after the fall, he extends over Marquez. The ranking says Pedrosa 103, Lorenzo 91 and Marquez 77. Rossi is only sixth with 47 points, three behind Andrea Dovizioso's Ducati.
Race report
Fifth race of the 2013 season for the riders of the MotoGP class. It runs on the splendid Mugello track, theater of the Tim Italian Grand Prix. Yesterday, with the new qualifying format (everything is played in 15 minutes in the "time attack"), the world championship leader Dani Pedrosa won pole in the Top Class, making his first start at the "pole" of 2013, the twenty-fifth in the MotoGP class. With him on the front row the reigning champion Jorge Lorenzo and the Ducati of the excellent Andrea Dovizioso, who had already won the front row at Le Mans.
Second row for the Yamaha SAT of Cal Crutchlow's Team Tech 3, for the Honda RC213V of Stefan Bradl (Team CLR) and for Honda rookie Marc Marquez, riding the second Honda RC213V of Team Repsol. Valentino Rossi will instead start from the third row with the seventh fastest time. The Yamaha rider from Pesaro is in the "company" of Nicky Hayden with the second Ducati of the internal team and Alvaro Bautista, with the RC213V with Showa suspension and Nissin brakes of Team Gresini. The first CRT is that of Aleix Espargarò, twelfth and ahead of our Andrea Iannone, Ducati Pramac. Everything is ready, 23 laps to go (for 120.635 km), the traffic lights go out, the fastest at the start is Dani Pedrosa, who after a small mistake is passed by Jorge Lorenzo.
Double crash, the two riders on the ground are Alvaro Bautista and Valentino Rossi! The Yamaha Pesaro race ends before it starts! Too bad for him and his fans, who came in large numbers!
The first lap ends with Lorenzo ahead of Pedrosa, Marquez, Dovizioso, Crutchlow, Hayden, Bradl, Iannone, Aleix Espargarò, Michele Pirro and Bradley Smith. It's an immediate three-way breakaway, with Crutchlow passing Dovizioso and Bradl attacking and passing Hayden.
The trio is already in the breakaway, their pace is unsustainable for everyone, despite the fact that Crutchlow is still lapping very fast with the Yamaha SAT of Team Tech 3. The gaps are already heavy behind them, Bradl is fifth and over seven seconds away and ahead of the two Ducatis from the internal team of Dovizioso and Hayden, fighting with the rider from Team LCR. Meanwhile, Aleix Espargarò's race was spectacular, eighth on the ART CRT of Team Aspar. Michele Pirro and Bradley Smith close the Top Ten.
Having reached the halfway point of the race, Lorenzo seems to be able to pull ahead of the Honda, while Marquez threatens Pedrosa. Great lap by the Majorcan, who "printed" 1'47"929! Incredible performance from the reigning champion, who extended his advantage to over two seconds. Meanwhile, Marquez is very close to his team-mate, the Honda rookie is running a good race, which puts him on the "virtual" podium and after the terrible crash on Friday (of which he still bears the marks) it would be a great result.
With five laps to go, Marquez attacks Pedrosa at the Casanova-Savelli, moving into second position and immediately separating his team-mate. Three laps to go, Marquez crashes at Savelli! It's a shame for the Honda rookie, who was having a great race. Fortunately for him there were no physical consequences. Last km of the race, Lorenzo goes on to win his second race of 2013, the twenty-fifth in MotoGP. On the podium with Lorenzo, Pedrosa and Crutchlow.
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Lorenzo is scary. :OR
Pedrosa does what he has to do, that is, he doesn't act like Marquez, and takes a well-deserved second place. :)
Cal confirms. ;)
Vale almost makes me tender... little boy. ^^
Bautista… okay… -.-
Ducati worsens compared to last year, both Hayden compared to himself and Dovi compared to Vale.
Don't make me post the numbers, motogp.com confirms what I say. :/
Aeneas
Go and see the results obtained in previous races and compare them with those of this year, then can you tell me how much Ducati has improved.
While everyone has the 2013 Factory, Ducati is still “sailing” with the slightly updated 2012 and, despite everything…..
I also include the tyres, for those who remember something from last year it's easy to understand why I also include this difference (for the worse of course).
What a race!?... zero emotion or little more without Vale... but what a bad luck...
Of course the Ducati is even slower than last year... oh well..
Mythical Pyrrhus!
It's difficult to see exciting moments if you don't see the protagonists of the duels. On the last lap, Dovi and Bradl overtook each other 4 times, but zero images.
But I didn't experience all this boredom in watching the GP. In my opinion there were several interesting moments.
Congratulations to Marquez, he's really going strong.
...well done, light...I was watching the race, yet another...completely different thing compared to TV...you can see the ups and downs clearly...the deafening noises, the real size of the riders and motorbikes etc...on TV they actually show whatever they like... I understand them, they can't follow everyone, but they could give a look at the duels in the rear... I was on the runner, a curve which together with the bucine is incredible to see... well, after the legendary Lorenzo (not particularly nice to me) who practically had his knee in his face so much he bent over, do you know who the best were, according to yours truly? You will think: "surely Marc, or Pedro"...wrong...they were (always for me) Bradl, Petrucci and Hernandez...someone will laugh at these statements but, seen live, I assure you that they are phenomenal...especially Yonny, who it deserves other bikes... what do I mean by this? That the top of the class are very strong and it's right to follow them but, if in the back there are duels like Hernandez and Laverty, why not follow them for a minute? It's clear that to see certain things you need to be at least an expert but, if no one directs the viewer to a correct view of the race, it will always end up that if it falls red people will leave because they think that the show is only for them...instead it's not like that, I can assure you... dear ligera, after all this discussion my throat is a little dry... I open a beer and sing my proverbial battle cry... Valem@rd@!!!
fatman,
I don't even think about blaming you, I see it just like you. we often witness remote-controlled shots where the leaders are at full throttle, but they are all one guard away from each other, while, in the rear, we are "nipping at the carotid artery".
We've been talking about boredom in front of TV screens for years now (but until I watched Stoner's guide, I wasn't bored), but the shooting style hasn't changed yet, the "last" people are only framed when they lie down and there is a replay there, but when they overtake each other, absolute darkness, not even a replay. It seems that, without falls, the things behind it shouldn't be interesting.
Very good Lorenzo, a good Cal and certainly a good Pedrosa who understood what the limit of his tires was.
Rossi's situation is also the result of a terrible qualifying and a certainly not perfect start, unfortunately Bautista made a small mistake, which led to the contact.
It must be said that Bautista has improved, last year he did a Strike on Lorenzo and completely got the braking wrong.
This time the collision was less violent between the two riders, of course Rossi took a good hit against the airfence.
It's a shame for Rossi, he certainly had the pace to stay with Crutchlow and perhaps together the two would have been able to catch Pedrosa before the end of the race.
...why don't you talk about Marquez? if Stoner fell you would all be criticising... meanwhile Dovi is having a blind beating in Vale!!!
Bha, as far as I'm concerned, I don't feel like raging on Marquez, despite the super blow he took on Friday he was there to compete with Pedrosa and he also overcame him, he made a mistake as a Rookie, it's his first year and it's normal that he doesn't be perfect.
Stoner made few mistakes when he was with Honda but if I have to remember one, it's last year at the Sachenring, but it's different Stoner was a world champion with a lot of experience, Marquez is a MotoGP novice, Marc's mistake it is more justified.
However this year I would really like to see what will happen at the Sachenring, Stoner had the merit of keeping up with Pedrosa's pace last year he just expected too much, because on that track Dani if he is physically ok and has no unexpected problems with the bike he is really very strong.
We'll see what Marquez can do, I think that Stoner could have won the world championship this year, I'm not saying with ease like in 2011 but he certainly would have won, the Hondas are going very well and only Lorenzo is somehow making a difference.
It almost seems like they are going at the opposite pace, in the sense that on the "fast" tracks with high top speeds the Yamahas do well while on the more tortuous ones the Hondas give the best. Furthermore, temperatures will continue to rise and I think the Hondas will perform even better.
…Stoner is worth 100 Marquez..
..Ronnie...if I remember correctly you are one of those who considered Marqez to be stronger than Casey...I remind you that Stoner won with a tubular pylon...Marquez immediately got his ass on the best HRC in recent years...
Stonami77 I gave you a minus too, sorry but you don't know what you're talking about, you throw things out at random, I'm one of those who has always thought that Marquez is strong but he's also recommended, more recommended than strong.
Stoner and Marquez cannot be put on the same level, apart from the first 2 years in Ducati and the last 2 in Honda he has never been on extremely competitive bikes in MotoGP.
I believe that Marquez is achieving great results together with Pedrosa also thanks to Stoner this year, because I am sure that if Stoner was still in MotoGP they would have much less data available.
I think Marquez is also working with Stoner's data, because he's doing too well for a first year. It is certain that the Honda has been a great bike since mid-2010, but now it is extremely competitive, because I have always considered Pedrosa a good rider, but I don't think he is as strong as Lorenzo.
Pedrosa always beat Lorenzo when he was on better bikes, I believe that if they were on the same bike, I'm not saying that Lorenzo would always win, but in the end he would take home the world championship with at least a couple more victories than Pedrosa.
All this to say that I think Honda will do better than Yamaha on most circuits this year, and if Marquez is going so fast I think it's also thanks to the bike, and I also think to the data left as a legacy by Stoner. I'm not saying that Marquez is a bastard, he's strong, but I think he's having less difficulty going fast than Rossi, Lorenzo, Stoner and Pedrosa thanks to his arrival in MotoGP on a super competitive bike with a super competitive team, and probably the fact that he has been with Honda for a while also helped to prepare everything as best as possible for his debut.
X Ronnie
In a post you write that the Yamahas are strong on fast tracks and vice versa (the Hondas), but I believe that such a comparison must consider the track layout and the strong points of the bikes.
In the following post, you give Marc the "recommended" rating which is fine, but then what should we say about Valentino who in his first year in 500 got a dedicated team headed by the (then) technical guru?
In the same post, you imply that if Stoner had remained at Honda, he would not have given his settings to his teammates. Do you know something specific? I ask because I have always known that when he was in Ducati, the 2 official riders could easily access their teammate's data. The only rider who refused this exchange and it pains me to put my finger on it again was Valentino, no other rider has ever behaved like this, at least from what little I know.
Honda's behavior towards Marquez is, in my opinion, a very normal privileged relationship with a champion who grew up on their bikes, something that happened with Valentino, with Pedrosa and which will happen, as is, with the next champion who they will be lucky enough to grow.
Yes, that about Honda and Yamaha as motorbikes was just a thought thrown in there, in reality I know that there are a lot of variables at play, not only how the motorbike adapts to the track, but also how the weather conditions are, the conditions of the riders, how well the drivers know how to interpret the track, how the team works, how the tires work...
Rossi, like many, let's say everyone is recommended, because otherwise they wouldn't get anywhere, in the sense that if there isn't someone who puts in a good word it's difficult to get anywhere, let's say that several good words are needed, the results It's not enough, you need sponsos and a good group of people who support you.
It seems to me that Rossi won't immediately enter 500cc in the sense that I think he could go there in 1999 but he'll wait, furthermore he was an Aprilia rider he wasn't a Honda rider, let's say he found himself in the right place at the right time, and certainly the bikes back then they were less easy to drive than those of today.
It's true that they are more powerful now, but let's say that we are no longer seeing Lorenzo's accidents in 2008, this is because now the bikes are much, much more intelligent and it is no longer so easy to get hurt and do something wrong.
Even Stoner himself didn't deserve an official in 2007, yet he won a world championship there, but they gave it to him, so it's difficult to say who is recommended and who isn't or who is more recommended, Marquez is certainly a Rookie and not I know if he should be sitting on an official Honda from the internal HRC team, Sic was strong but they didn't give him this treatment, moreover for Marquez they removed the Rookie rule so yes it seems very recommended to me :)
Yes Stoner who had the settings copied in Ducati :P at the beginning then even Hayden admitted that when he reached good performances there was no longer any transition.
Sonter who gave his data and settings to Pedrosa in Honda hahahah this is good, Sotoner didn't even want him to ride with him in free practice and let alone in qualifying ahhaha, rest assured that every rider keeps his secrets as tight as he can ', he's not there trying to make others go faster than him. Yes, yes, keep my data, do you also want to see my trajectories, by any chance do you want me to keep you until the end of the race? :)
Rossi's situation is the result of Rossi and Burgess. The bike is there, not only is there the official one, but there is also the less official one. Only Valentino's Yamaha is missing. In Jerez, he finished the 1st lap in 3rd position, he had Lorenzo and Pedrosa in front, but already on the 4th lap he was almost 2 seconds behind.
The latest on the accident:
Bautista was trailing Iannone and was forced to slow down more than necessary. Vale passed outside (this part is not seen in the images, but this is the latest version of the sequence of events). Bautista was on the right line, Valentino was on the outside line.
Once around the bend, Bautista accelerated following Iannone and didn't notice Vale's maneuver (there's no point in explaining where the rider looks when he takes a bend).
Result: Bautista in the correct wake and faster than Vale who, even though he had overtaken him, was going slower.
Contact ensues which knocks both out of action.
I don't want to say that it's Valentino's fault, let's be clear, but I don't see Bautista's real "fault" in it.
I completely agree with the commission's conclusion, a normal racing accident and, in this case, there is no blame to be attributed to one or the other.
“Vale had the pace to stay with Cal”, “Vale could get to the podium”, etc.
I don't think it's that simple.
1°) Cal had shown that he had improved his pace, in the Warm-up he had shown a pace of 1.47.high, 1.48.low, while, good as you want to be, Valentino sailed around 1.48.mezzo.
2°) Cal gained the position quickly and managed to get away from the Ducatis, Valentino should have done the same (while instead he is no longer so quick in moving up) and, unlike Cal, during the tests it was seen that he was unable to easily detach the Ducatis.
3°) Even admitting that Vale had overtaken and separated the Ducatis, he would have had 4 other bikes in front of him and if Cal had taken even just a second of advantage, it is absolutely not certain that Vale would have been able to recover, considering the races held up to until now.
At the end of every GP, you always feel that Vale could have gone to the podium. If Vale then makes a lap at the level of the leaders, Meda goes off on a tangent, stating that Vale has the pace of the leaders.
I never hear any of his fans reading these statements critically, on the contrary, they often make them their own without seeing whether it is plausible or not. This happens at every GP, while, if you look at the times, you often notice that the situations are magnified, almost exaggerated (this is what the times say), but no one ever seems to notice.
Have you noticed the points in the ranking? Vale has fewer points than last year on Ducati. Now tell me that it depends only on the bad luck in each race, on the bad qualifying sessions (but who drives?) and on the bad starts (but who does them?) and not (as even the stopwatch now admits) on driving skills.
PS: Vale did the Warm Up and a time of 1.48.4 with a tire with 20 laps on his back, here's the answer to the possible podium.
In the worst case scenario Crutchlow would have caught Pedrosa pushed by Rossi and at that point Rossi would have reunited with Crutchlow.
In fact, a Rossi in pursuit of Crutchlow would have pushed Cal to the limit throughout the race, but Cal certainly pulled out 100% but not in a completely continuous way.
Maybe years ago.
None of the best did their warm-up times in the race, and Cal (but also in the race) still did much better than Vale's 1.48.4.
Lime:
1.47 and counting in the WU and 1.48.1 in the race if I remember correctly.
Vale would have competed with Bradl (e), perhaps he would have pulled away from him at the end.
I think it's useless to make assumptions, Rossi's race ended immediately, and among other things you can add 1000 if, if he had qualified better if he had started better if Marquez hadn't crashed and blah blah blah.
I'll add just one fact, last year Rossi with the Ducati took 10 seconds less than Bradl this year.
Jorge won last year and this year he took 2 seconds more than 2013
Do your own calculations on where Rossi could have reached not with a Ducati but with a Yamaha.
Last year Rossi took approximately 12 seconds from Jorge, this year Dovizioso took 20 seconds.
Last year Dovizioso took 10.5 seconds.
Make 2 calculations and see what Rossi's potential was with an official Yamaha on a track that suits him.
If he didn't finish with Crutchlow he was 1 or 2 seconds away and not because he didn't have his pace but because if he remained standing he still had to overtake several bikes.
Taking the hypothesis you suggest as true, how do you explain that the same bike made better times on the other tracks?
As you rightly said, there are many variables, a race does not make statistics, looking up to this point, Dovi is ahead 4 to 1. Why?
What is more likely, that the bike here at Mugello didn't give the desired results (they had lapped the week before in 1.48 and broken pace), or that Dovizioso and Hayden worked miracles on the previous 4 tracks?
If you look at the times set in the WU Everyone got slightly worse in the afternoon, why shouldn't Vale have the same fate as everyone else?
Rossi's potential is the one seen on his favorite bike, the Yamaha and, sorry if I rewrite it, his potential at Mugello certainly didn't make me roll my eyes. All the times set in practice are nothing sensational, even Cal did much better than Vale, Vale's potential is 4th, 5th, nothing more. Then the time will come for him too, you'll see, between now and the end of the year, he'll be able to get into at least one race.
These are your conclusions
If he didn't finish with Crutchlow he was 1 or 2 seconds away and not because he didn't have his pace but because if he remained standing he still had to overtake several bikes.
These are mine
3°) Even admitting that Vale had overtaken and separated the Ducatis, he would have had 4 other bikes in front of him and if Cal had taken even just a second of advantage, it is absolutely not certain that Vale would have been able to recover, considering the races held up to until now.
Do you notice any differences?
This thing about the fact that everyone got worse in the afternoon is the result of your strange analysis, there are riders in the top 6 who have improved, even Marquez who was knocked out made a much better time in races than in the Warm Up, even Pedrosa Bradl has improved too.
Improving wasn't impossible, and then I'll tell you again, Rossi did 1.48.4 in the warm up with a tire with more than twenty laps so I'm not saying he could do 1.47.high every lap but Crutchlow did 1.48.4 – 1.48.8 in the race. XNUMX as a pace, so I think it wasn't unattainable for Rossi, we'll see what happens next time.
I considered WU because usually drivers never push at 100% (except in very rare cases) and with used tyres.
This, in my opinion, indicates that, if you don't improve in the race, the combination of variables (temp. etc.) didn't allow you to be fast.
Marquez, Pedrosa, Dovi, Bradl improved the times of the WU. Analyzing all the MotoGPs.
However, Dovizioso, Bradl and Pedrosa had already shown in other sessions that they could ride as they did in the race. Pedrosa lapped 1 tenth slower in practice than he actually did in the race.
Only Marquez actually improved his pace, but we are talking about Marc Marquez (1.47.639), in practice he had hit hard and, as was made clear in all the sessions, the young Spaniard was "convinced" to put in a little more of calm and that time.
In any case, 1.47.6 he did it only once on the 2nd lap, then he lapped with the WU times
The same thing was done by Pedrosa, 2nd lap in 1.47.898, then he lapped with the WU times and in any case, always above 1.48.
Even leaving my "strange analysis" (I hope I have clarified why), I'll give you the progression of Vale's times with race tires:
FP2 = 1.48.409;
FP3 = 1.48.580;
FP4 = 1.48.407
As you can see, there is no progression, he reached his limit already on Friday afternoon and has not improved since then. New tire or used tire there was no sign of improvement. Did it also happen while riding the Ducati?
Assuming that it could run in 1.47.high finds absolutely no confirmation. On the same basis, then I can argue that Bautista could have lapped even faster than Vale, but this way he doesn't come out of it.
Another way to get the exact same response? Quickly said. Let's consider the behavior of the Yamahas, of all the Yamahas. Even if hypothetically, it is logical to assume that, as the track conditions varied, Valentino's Yamaha would have responded like the other Yamahas.
I have not indicated a single reason, but 3 reasons to think that Valentino would not have managed to get to the podium anyway.
Mine are certainly hypotheses, but, as fallible as all hypotheses are, they are always based on real data.
In all sincerity, I don't see how anyone could think that Valentino would have finished on the podium in the race (as he himself claims).
Certainly not an exciting race, with Lorenzo too superior to everyone both in terms of tactics (see start) and in terms of consistency on the lap...
Sorry for Vale... but why don't they take away Bautista's license? Isn't it the first time that in the initial stages he thinks there's only him on the track? He can't afford to take qualifying trajectories in the middle of the group.
Today he ruined the race for both Vale and the public, seeing as he was the only one who could excite her.
Because it's not Bautista's fault. I'm not saying it's Vale's, but in the race commission, they gave the right assessment of what happened.
Bautista was on the regular line, it was Vale who was off the normal line.
As has already been fully explained by Vale after the race, Bautista was in such a position that he did not notice Vale and when at given throttle, maintaining the right trajectory, I repeat, he found himself in front of Vale who was returning to the trajectory for the next curve.
Under acceleration, Bautista was certainly unable to avoid contact. Vale had the right right, being in front, but in this case, Bautista has all the justifications needed.
However, the title is really explanatory... :D
“Rossi falls” hihihih ^^
I would have put: Rossi victim of bautista, rider suffering from the famous "Grosjean syndrome" hehhehe :D
Okay, come on, in the end they are racing accidents, but it would probably have been less annoying if it had been caused by someone new to these episodes... Alvaro is a bit of a repeat offender instead... ;)
Aeneas
….ahahahahaha blind beating!!!!!
…stoned, how much are we enjoying it? Valem@rd@…
…double enjoyment..1 because steto is worth it and 2 because the cabroncito went to pick mushrooms in the gravel….the child thinks he is superman..
Another against Bautista.
I can also understand that it is annoying to see your favorite knocked out without any fault, but the race direction saw and reviewed the images, heard from those involved and gave a judgment that is not one of guilt against Bautista, but of acquittal, having rightly defined it as a normal accident from competition. Why not trust people who have had enough to deny? The decision taken is not "Solomonic" so as not to penalize anyone, but it is the only possible decision in a similar case.
What a shame for Rossi…. He could fight for 5th place!!!!!
…maybe fourth…Marc fell…
Sorry for Rossi, I think he would have easily fought for the podium also given Marquez's crash. Late night for Ducati. We must take these positions at face value because next year between Suzuki, new Hondas and Yamaha engines we run the risk of falling back a few more positions. I don't think it can go any worse when the new bike gets out on the track.
The new bike has already been on the track since Jerez, and it is Pirro's... ;)
Francesco guidotti, Ducati-Pramac team manager:
Journalist:
When will the new bike arrive?
Rumors speculated about an early debut
Guidotti:
“The new bike has already been on the track since Jerez with Pirro (the other official riders aren't using it yet), now there's the possibility of continuing the tests during the races too. We have to organize ourselves, because logistically it is not easy and it is not immediate to change a bike within an already established team. We will evaluate with Ducati what to do."
You do it… ^^
Aeneas
Yes Yes i know. I also meant for the official riders. I don't know anything about it at all but I seem to have understood that the motorbike used by Pirro does not entirely comply with the regulations and therefore should be modified. He can only compete as a wild card. For this reason at Le Mans he raced with the Ducati Pramac with the specifications that Hayden and Dovi still use.
You don't get blood from a turnip... ;)
I understand what you mean, but that is "evolution", you can conform as much as you want, but, last minute miracles aside, I see gray on the horizon. ;)
Aeneas
But yes, let's throw it up quickly, so we start making the mistakes of last season again.
Of course, as a Ducati fan, I can't wait for new things to arrive that can make it progress, but not starting over with last year's mistakes, I prefer to wait and above all, I prefer that the new features are not the result of a few extra cents, but they are reasoned changes for new evolutions.
Already now the front end has improved slightly, but if they take it to the track, then the basis for the other changes must start from that fixed point, however, based on how they are working, the other improvements can also be evaluated by further modifying that detail ( I hope I explained myself correctly).
As far as I know, Pirro competed with Pramac and for this reason alone he had to use the same bike as Spies. Furthermore, as far as I know (ready to be proven wrong if concrete information says otherwise), the Ducati laboratory complies with the regulation. I don't think that, because it is a wild card, the bike can be modified beyond the regulatory deadlines.
The Ducati-turnip that Dovizioso finds himself is the result of all the "unfortunate" decisions made by the Burgess-Vale duo. It's easy to blame Ducati, forgetting that until a few months ago it was the main test rider (of the entire MotoGP) and that it wasn't even able to give the right instructions to fix the front (in crisis since way back in 2010) , while, as soon as we arrived, it was stated that the front would be fixed in an hour (and I was wide).
Vale forced Ducati to switch to an aluminum frame. The old project remained in vogue only for SBK.
Reading the statements of the Panigale riders, it emerges that the bike literally has "a scary front", in the sense that it has an excellent front. The difficulties arise from the engine which, having become over-square to find more horsepower (a project of this size that has never been tested before, I am referring to the shape of the enormous combustion chamber), ends up with an engine that is poor at the bottom and very, very grumpy.
Conclusion: the Panigale goes badly, very true, but it goes badly not because of the chassis (as many surely assume), but because of what should have been the strong point, the engine which unfortunately gave rise to unexpected complications.
What a pleasure to see Marc in the gravel…..
and why ever?
I'm out of tune, be serious ;)
Aeneas
Stone me
And by the way, read my first post:
“Pedrosa does what he has to do, that is, he doesn't act like Marquez, and takes a well-deserved second place. :)”
I really wanted to underline Marc's screw-up, he deserved the gravel. simple.
Aeneas
...I'm waiting at the runner and the nurse doesn't arrive...how nice...many Canary spectators left on the third lap of the race, a fine example of sportsmanship...how nice...I connect with my smartphone and read your bullshit …how beautiful…eenneeeaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah…
But how did you manage to write so many haha with your smartphone… hihihi ^^
Did you see the demolition live?
Aeneas
…copy and paste…and then I have a serious smartphone…look here ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah…
…gorge yourself with cherry tomatoes and turnip greens…in addition to eating your liver in the Apulian style…in the Pesaro style they eat it with the sic and Mike58 ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah , ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah , ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah , ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah , ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah , ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah , ah…
…but how much I'm enjoying it…ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah…
…this evening giant Florentine, Chianti and free burp… at the house of a friend who would also kill the paramedic… what a beautiful moment!!!
Quote:
fatman "...I'm waiting at the runner and the nurse doesn't arrive...how nice...many Canary spectators left on the third lap of the race, a fine example of sportsmanship"
While you who connect to mock this incident are the PALADIN OF SPORTSITY!?
…no…but I'm in good company…badass fans!!!
…el cabroncito had gotten a little carried away..
What's the point of the comma between one ah and the other…hihiiihih ^^
Do you have a delicate heart and do you take a break between laughs...? hihihi ^^
Aeneas
...be careful, you who are sporty...I am fat and invulnerable....my friend sends you aff...ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah…
say hello to your friend, and don't get angry thinking about your hero of the day Alvaro... hee, hee, hee, hee,,,,hee, ,, ^^
Aeneas
...come on, guys...actually the paramedic/c+lo won by distance...only he was too fast and we couldn't see it ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah…
Dovizioso ahead of Rossi in the world championship? Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo).
...don't worry, it's a coincidence...and then don't point out certain things...after the proclamations at the beginning of the year some tavulliaboys could commit suicide...for example someone like e...I don't remember the name...it must be the three vodka lemons I have in my body!! !
well in fact this Yamaha is more gate than gate...luckily now there is the tax evader to develop it, uh, uh, uh.
Boring race.
Point.
For the "emotion" chapter, only the duel between the two official Hondas saved it a little.
Lorenzo... speechless and there is no comment that matters.
He has a motorbike, at least on paper, admittedly and clearly inferior to the Honda and yet... ;-)
Marquez great sin and great anger! He's just a poor rookie, he was very tactical and very cautious in overtaking Pedro, and then he threw away an armored second place. Sin! Anyway he's the only one who can make us see exciting things. In fact, if he fell it was only because he had made up his mind to catch up with Jorge and fight for 1st place!
A big.
Rossi was "knocked down" by someone who calls him an idiot is an understatement: he has already had several "strikes" in his career and this one is neither better nor worse than others. He's a mediocre rider, very mediocre, and it's not clear why he should race a semi-official Honda.
Among other things, no one remembers it, but when poor Marco crashed the last time he was really involved with Bautista who was being an idiot so as not to let him pass. In fact, it is no coincidence that when Sic's motorbike was given to him, more than one person (including me) was pissed off like a snake.
More than anything, this race was useful to make anyone understand that the fault of a losing Ducati (from 2003 to 2013 - except 2007) has always only been Rossi's...mmuahahahahahah!
And in any case, listen to Dovizioso's interview after the race, is it or isn't it a photocopy of those of Rossi, Melandri, Stoner himself, and all the others etc etc?
Now they call Dall'Igna from Aprilia, after which if it doesn't work that way they can just throw the bike into the Lourdes swimming pool, but I believe that there are much more important miracles that are waiting and deserve to be performed...
Last consideration: anyone who rejoices and enjoys the misfortunes of others is a poor person as well as a true coward inside: useless beings, if not harmful.
…a great??? yes..taking a beating in the gravel..Stoner was a bastard trying to take Pedrosa in Germany when he got knocked out and now the cabroncito is a great…but please..
idiots have already responded to this note of yours, don't turn a deaf ear...
Having said this, a few touches can only be good for the overly exuberant Spaniard.
Aeneas
….Oh really? I remember the story you got into when Stoner flew into the gravel in Germany... at the time you didn't say that he was right to try to win if I remember correctly... come on... but you know... Stoner was indigestible to you because he Rossi was ridiculed in his comparison with Ducati..I remind you that Vale is still behind Dovizioso..I'm sure you didn't predict it ;-)
Are you out of tune or are you doing it? Why do you seek controversy at all costs?
I reiterated from the first place that Marc's act was a mess that should have been avoided, but why the hell are you comparing him to a stoner in Germany...
Marc is in the fourth race of his first world championship, stoner was in the eighth race of his SEVENTH world championship...
Can you get there or do you want a little drawing?
Don't you notice a very small difference...??
Get over it, stoner is fishing... get over it.
Aeneas
...but shut up...and keep eating your liver...the Pesaro style, of course ah, ah, ah!!!
Tomorrow I'll take all the tavulliaboys to the company and go out for lunch with the faithful of the "valam@rd@ club"... there are already 15 of us and we'll increase... I'll pay for everyone's drinks... call me godoman ah, ah, ah... don't cry tonight, please…you have already suffered too much ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah!!!
….long live Alvaro the Metalhead!!
I can't believe it: did you found the CDP (Club Dei Pirla)?
Finally come out into the open hahaha
Totally disagree.
Boring match for Vale fans or rather the images broadcast were boring. There were many beautiful moments, not least the last lap between Dovi and Bradl.
I don't think Yamaha is inferior to Honda, they have different strengths. Mugello is designed to only enhance the Honda's greater speed and only for a short stretch (compared to the entire length of the circuit), but for the Yamaha, on the contrary, it enhances it in cornering and does not penalize it in slow restarts, as happens in other circuits.
Marquez explicitly said that he was pulling to put more space between himself and Pedrosa, not to go and catch Lorenzo. After overtaking Pedrosa, Marc was almost 5 seconds behind Lorenzo and with just over 4 laps to go, don't even think about catching Lorenzo.
Bautista has done stupid things in the past, very true, but in the dynamics of this clash, the blame cannot be attributed to either of the 2, as the commission rightly ruled. If a driver has made mistakes in the past, he doesn't mean that he is always guilty. In the commission they saw and reviewed the images, they spoke with the protagonists and if they had believed that Bautista was in the wrong, he would certainly have been penalized according to the new regulations (with points).
In 2003, Ducati reached the podium several times and won one race. In 2004 the Michelin "tyres" given only to those who were "welcome" advised the Italian company to switch to Japanese tyres. From 2005 to 2006 they worked tirelessly on the tires and in 2006, without the "bean" put on by Sete, Capirex would have had the means to have an excellent year. In 2007 he won the title. In 2008 he didn't win it again, it's true, but it's also true that Valentino adopted the Bridgestones while his team officially had the Michelins (and this is strange to say the least), furthermore, all the effort made by Ducati to make the Giappy's tyres, did not bring any privilege given that Vale immediately had a "dedicated development" (something that not even the Honda customers of the time ever had), not to have to mention the fact that Ducati had a type of power supply (with a single injector given the size of the Desmo) which introduced the fuel at 200 Bar pressure (perfectly atomised), then, since 2009 if I'm not mistaken, the supply pressure was mandatorily brought to 10 Bar (it seems to me to be this is still the case today), but while Honda and Yamaha, in addition to pneumatic valves, had adopted an injection system with 3 (I think) injectors, Ducati, due to the size, was unable to do so. In 2010 Stoner crashed (when he was in front of everyone) and it was said that it was his mistakes, only later did it become clear that the front was causing problems and they tried to remedy it only at the end of the world championship.
Despite all this, the Ducati was a winning bike. Winning because he won and without crashes at the start of the world championship, who knows if Stoner let himself go halfway through the championship, as happened, only to resume an enviable pace in the last races.
I forgot, all these years, with only 2 innovative interventions per year. The first in Barcelona, very often, the second after half the championship.
We arrive at the Valentino era. Zero Pole. Zero victories. Immense gaps, unthinkable (even by Hayden) until 2010. They solved nothing, not even on the front end. They spent an immense sum, in Stoner's time, what they spent in one year with Vale, they spent in 5 years with Stoner. They brought 3-4 bikes in the first year, they completely changed the bike because according to Vale the problem was the frame, only to then realize that, even with the aluminum frame, the problems remained, a sign that there were other things to work on.
Why take it to Ducati if you don't know the reason for this decline. Then it really turns out that it was Rossi's fault all along.
Speaking of interviews, I find Valentino's interviews more problematic, as they are the same as those last year at Ducati. Big proclamations, loud beatings and passing the buck. The problems then always seem to be the same, "On Saturday I don't improve while the others do" "The problem is qualifying, I start too far away otherwise I would be in pace with those close to the podium".
Just like in the words of 2012, but it was on the Ducati toilet, not on the world champion Yamaha (which has now become half-assed).
Your last two lines: it seems to me that this is what you just did in your post, you listed what you consider to be "the misfortunes of Ducati" and you even enjoyed it, with the side of allusions you added.
This is my final consideration.
NB: The post is in response to your (in my opinion wrong) statements. You can include me (as I did anyway), in your "last consideration", but in the reality of things, I certainly don't rejoice in the foolish things done in Ducati by those who, until 2012, were the ones who had to "direct" the development, given that he “directed” him to the famous “cul de sac”.
…simply wonderful…I repeat: if you were a woman I would throw you ah, ah, ah…W Petrucci and Yonny!!!
how can you speak badly of the only Italian rider who in the last 30 years has been able to win in the premier class of the world championship... and not once... but 7 times!!! if you don't like him, it's your business, but a minimum of gratitude for what he did perhaps would be appropriate...
...it's true, sorry...he gave a lot to sport but little to the state, given that he evaded 60 million euros and returned half of it...just an example to follow...continue to suffer and hope...those who live hoping he dies...
on this forum in theory we should talk about motorbikes and sporting results, what happens off the track should be commented on in other places.
I apologize to all the comari of the forum.... it's too easy to say that Dovi is in front with that shitty bike.... think about hayden who is 2 points behind!!!! ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahhahahahahahahaahahahahahaahahhaahhaha… without a comma!!!!! goooooooooooddddddooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo by testoner and h954r. is it ok like this edy??????? muaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
That's fine, bye testers!
it must also be said that mer-dino with such a poor bike should be able to start a little further forward to avoid finding himself in certain situations…. but poor guy rides the worst motorbike. Surely next time it will be better. after all, only he makes you have fun!! 1 ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaahahah!!!!!
…they say that the new phenomenon (Marquez) copied Dani's setting…it's a shame that the cabroncito ended up in the gravel…well suits him..
I still haven't understood if Stonami77 is the real one when he writes intelligent things (unfortunately it happens more and more rarely, or if instead the "real" Stonami77 is the one who trolls...
In any case, to get back on topic, I want to remind you that Lorenzo himself made a thousand mistakes before becoming what he is today.
But what is more important, I WOULD LIKE TO REMIND YOU, that Stoner, before "turning" in his career, ate so much off-piste gravel around the world that he earned the nickname "Rolling Stoner"! only you forgot...
Then he became Stoner.
So Marquez, before breaking the Australian-first crashes record, you want to crash!
He can afford at least a thousand.
However, I would like to know why Marquez is even more on your ass than Rossi (which is saying something!).
But maybe I know why:::
;-)
Simply because he is paracxlo as if not worse than Rossi in the first way...he lacks the curtains...thank goodness that, unlike Rossi, he won't win easily with the opponents he finds himself on the track...he is aiming for the world championship but he doesn't say it to avoid poop figures in case of failure….
Ah, sorry, in fact I had missed the detail that for us motorcycle enthusiasts who watch the races trying to get excited, the character and personality of the rider are more important than how he rides!!!
Ahahahahahaha
Come on, Stonami, you can't be serious!
…and who doubts Marquez's class?? he is also spectacular on the track...he remains a champion anyway, a champion yes but a champion...like Rossi he is a champion but he complains worse than Max and contributed to the collapse of Ducati...
or we believe that motorcycle manufacturers are piles
or we have to take it at face value that they try to put the best riders on the best bikes.
And this is for Marc and this has always been for Vale and others.
A potential like Marc's, capable of making so much difference, hasn't been seen for a while, not even from champions coming from SBK.
Lightweight
I will respond briefly to your posts in the various news.
Ducati:
You cry out for a miracle at every qualification of Dovi, who among other things always has someone tow him, you rejoice in the best test driver, you say that he is driving the Desmo better than Rossi.
The results say the opposite.
Ducati has gotten worse, last year Rossi finished fifth without Alvaro knocking anyone down, and he got there 11 seconds behind first.
Dovi finished fifth thanks to Alvaro alias Grosjean, and reached 19 seconds.
Even Hayden did worse than himself.
Maybe it can't be said that it's something sensational, but neither that Dovi is doing better... ;)
Just for a change, the new bike is the one Pirro rode in Jerez... you do it... ;)
Alvaro:
The judges' decision is right, but if you know that you are among twenty bikes, anyway, you don't throw away that acceleration as if you were only in qualifying, and the analysis of the trajectories they took after the race is completely different from what you reported.
As agostini said, the right trajectory of the one behind is the trajectory of the one in front of you... obviously... ;)
But I'll frame this one:
“Why take it to Ducati if you don't know the reason for this decline. Then it really turns out that it was Rossi's fault all along."
You forgot to mention that world hunger was also caused by vale, without forgetting chemtrails and hollow earth.
All the work of Rossi.
Aeneas
EneA, but why do you try so hard to respond seriously to Ligera and so badly to fartman?
Look they are identical!!!!!
The only difference is that Ligera uses millions and millions of words (eccheppalle!!!) to arrive at a single concept: valem3rd@.
At least Fartman gets straight to the point with a simple and direct word: so if you want to answer, read quickly, and respond just as quickly. While with Ligera, with the time it takes you to read, if you also want to answer, you lose yourself: a Sorrentino film, a dinner with the hot girl on duty... and so on. Is it convenient for you?
Ahahahahahaha
Well, actually, it's a bit long-winded…hihihi ^^
Hi W sic, I go to sleep every now and then
“I have to get up at some point” to work… hehehe ^^
Aeneas
…but how, do you also work? Don't you live on welfare like all of you in the south? At least you get back some of the money lost after the war ah, ah, ah... you ew the sic really don't understand a thing!!!
You should memorize what Ligera writes, the supreme truth... instead your only reading is the Gazzetta del Mezzogiorno and, perhaps, the manual for the mobile phone you own ah, ah, ah!!!
hehehehehe :D
Stupid lard if you're interested I have two jobs.
One allows me to earn money by working comfortably from my home, I get up and go to sleep at what time I want, work when I want and go on holiday when I want.
The second one I would pay to do it because I like it, and instead they also pay me... hihihi ^^
What are you doing? The manager of the “lardoso è bello” club?
go from via el cul faRtman… ;)
Aeneas
If I write "incompetent" do you understand?
Now that I've got your attention:
I'm fine if you want to put it on this level, but I remind you that up to now I haven't offended anyone. I'm sorry, but if you write nonsense I'll say it. Until today (as is clearly written in the post), I have always done so by talking about motorcycles and putting forward arguments, not small talk, if you are able, respond in kind, otherwise abstain.
If you have something to say about what I write and how I write it, I'm welcome to reply, but as I already told you some time ago, you don't make idiotic jokes to me. If you want to write about concrete things, do so, otherwise please refrain from quoting me.
I'm sure you read and understood, even though I didn't write a word like the legendary fat.
Eehhhhhhhhh, But look how hot it gets! The truth always has this stinging effect.
Relax….
Look, it's simple: I'll show you how to do it: press the V key on the PC keyboard, then A then the L key then E, then the M key and then the E again, the R the D and finally the A !
If it's too difficult, ask Fart-man for repetitions: he has the Nobel Prize for insult and not just Rossi, but above all Rossi.
Look, I don't care, professor, about this shit!
You look like the other one, with the difference that you write novels pretending to talk "learnedly" about motorbikes, but then by freeze-drying all this talk the gist you get to is always the same: spreading m3rd@ on Rossi.
So if that's the point, just do it with one word. But it's clear that mine is just a wish out loud and that's it. After that I certainly can't stop you from being the Dumas of the forum!
If you like it that way, go ahead, but just don't think that we're here to get messed up by you!
No, not the truth, words spoken in vain, yes.
The point you identified is clear to you because that is the only thing you look for in posts where Valentino is not exalted.
You have never bothered to check whether the "professor" says true or invented or deduced things, you don't care about evaluating the questions that are put forward in here with facts, you are only able to intervene with obviousness and trite and trite concepts withdrawn.
Make me happy, put your big red thumb on me and let fatman take you for a ride, I honestly tried to speak calmly expressing my dissent on your writings without using offensive terms. It seems that you are not even able to answer with the same criteria, considering the tricks you are showing off.
I understand more and more why the exasperation of some has reached certain limits.
I'll repeat it again, do you want to talk about motorbikes or do you want to talk about how good Valentino is?
It's not my fault if Valentino has always been involved in these stories, Valentino is your idol, I certainly don't feel the need to speak well of him just because when you read you get sulky, if Vale is in the middle of certain disputes, I I say, like it or not, this doesn't mean you have to offend...or am I wrong?
To be clear, it was you who started this pantomime. I would have gladly spared it.
On Dovi and Ducati, no one has ever claimed a miracle. I'm fine with different points of view being expressed, but if you're referring to me specifically, write down the things I say and I've never said any of that.
Has Ducati gotten worse? I don't remember where I already wrote it, but I went to calculate the times for 2012 on the same tracks where this year was raced. Apart from Mugello, in the other 3 (because Austin is new), considering the variables such as temperature etc. similar. (as is done at Mugello after all), it turns out that Vale was systematically slower, not only that, but in 2012 he had already finished behind Hayden twice without considering that at Mugello, in 2, Hayden was ahead of Vale until on the last lap, then a mistake relegated him to 2012th position. Hayden however, was fighting for the podium, Vale was more than 7 second behind.
This is why I repeat that it would be better to inform yourself before embarking on similar discussions, otherwise everyone writes what comes into their head, based only on one result.
Dovizioso is doing better than Vale, just look at how quickly he finishes the GPs. Qualifying. It's easy to write that Dovi sets the times in the slipstream, at least Dovi remains in the slipstream, even in the race.
From what I remember, Vale couldn't even stay in the wake, except on rare occasions.
Baptist:
what I reported became known after the off-the-cuff interview. Furthermore, I have not changed a comma of what Agostini rightly said, I have only added details.
Try to reread in a detached manner and you will not find any differences between what I said and what they said out of hand, I just added details that were not yet known and if you look at the images carefully and look where everyone passes, you will see that Bautista was on the right trajectory, Vale had to widen because Bautista was slowed down by Iannone etc. etc.
In addition to framing it (I mean the joke), try to do some research outside of the classic forums where we talk about this and that and then tell me what I invented about what I wrote about the Ducati from 2003 to today.
Everyone saying that Ducati only won in 2007, without knowing why it won "only" in 2007 and then getting shocked when someone tells you uncomfortable truths to your face? It's much easier to believe that the Ducati was already a poor bike than him, that it was the fault of the engineers who don't understand a thing and that Vale's work left it unchanged.
Lightweight
…hayden said in 2012 how that desmo was the best he had ever driven.
The truth is that the Ducati was only strong with stoners, and its particular style which exploited a controlled slide to make the bike turn from behind.
But the bike went badly with everyone else. it is valid understood and where included... melandri, gibernau, the last capirossi, and others...
Second more second less where Vale's opaque seasons are being repeated, Hayden himself and the various unknowns (Bautista for example) can make you improve or worsen, but the story is the same.
Aeneas
“I would have liked to be closer to the top and have a better pace, but this is still the best Ducati I've ever ridden – he declared – It's the easiest to ride, it gives a lot of feedback and I can 'feel' it well”.
Hayde in an interview after Qatar 2012.
Aeneas
Cassatas are on everyone's lips, do you remember "this is my bike" from the year before?
When every driver is interviewed, he must say what he can say, let's not start measuring things by using "only" the drivers' statements (joke: if that were the case, Vale would have already won 4 GPs out of 5), let's do a bit of calibration and then we also look at the results, the times, everything that is needed to really understand, if we want to limit ourselves to the excerpt of an interview, to define a motorbike, then let's meet at the bar sipping a coffee with the right amount of bitters around so we travel for the tangent.
You have a somewhat unrealistic view on Michelin and Bridgestone tyres; perhaps you think that everything is due to Ducati, while the others are all recommended and do not have the merits to deserve special treatment.
In 2003 Ducati was NOBODY in MotoGP, a factory that produces for a niche market.
Honda and Yamaha had been in the world championship for many years and sold more, why on earth would Michelin do them an injustice and start developing tires for Ducati?
It is extremely illogical and counterproductive!
It's not that they gave tires here and there, obviously the tires were developed more for Honda and Yamaha as they were the manufacturers that fielded the most motorcycles.
For this reason, when there was the possibility, Ducati and Kawasaki and I don't remember if Suzuki also switched to Bridgestone.
Let's also say that without Bridgestone Ducati would not have achieved the results of 2006-2007-2008.
Michelin was the leader until 2005 but then things changed, they also had to invest millions upon millions and they didn't exactly have a good return on their image.
Yamaha in 2008 still had an active contract with Michelin and therefore it could not be canceled overnight and I don't know precisely, but it is possible that Yamaha still had to pay for the supply of tires to Michelin, even if Rossi did not have them used.
Since Rossi and Lorenzo in the same team had tires from 2 different manufacturers, the wall was erected in the Yamaha garage.
Rossi's case is not too unusual in the sense that Pedrosa did the same from mid-championship, this is strange!
In the sense that if someone wants Bridgestone tires at the start of the season and during testing because he has understood that they work better, he can do so, it's not completely normal but if someone isn't happy he can change tyres. In Honda the change occurred mid-season when it was seen that the Bridgestones were doing better.
Regarding Ducati's competitiveness at the end of 2010, it's the usual stories, the GPs won by Soner are the usual Phillip Island and the others won because Lorenzo didn't yet have the world championship in his pocket mathematically so he wasn't giving 100%, just look at what happened when Lorenzo knew he had the world championship in his pocket, bye bye Casey Stoner welcome back Jorge Lorenzo.
PS Stoner also crashed in the last GPs so I wouldn't claim a miracle and the fact that they had solved the problems on the front, because they still haven't solved them.
The only thing that can be broken in Casey's favor is that he managed to take the Ducati to the podium and to victory more often than all the others, but from here to say that the Ducati is a great bike and that it has no problem is unrealistic.
Just look at what Ducati does in a MotoGP season, with other riders Le Mans seems to be the track that favors them the most, and at Mugello, a test track against tests, they manage to do worse than the year before with the same bike and better performing tires and according to them with lower temperatures and softer tyres, which should allow you to go faster and instead they also take pay from Rossi, the boiled one for many who however last year on the Mugello track went faster than the great Dovizioso .
…regarding the wall, sorry but you wrote an inaccuracy (minchi@t@ would be too scurrilous and it's not like me-:))…the geriatrician wanted it and not because of the difference in the tire brand, but because of the telemetry and the various settings….reaffirmed by the nurse even to the Motosprint journalists…
fatman wanted to keep it in 2009 but in 2008 it was Michelin/Bridgestone who wanted it, Lorenzo was mister nobody and wasn't feared by Rossi.
X Ronnie
Try rereading this article:
http://motograndprix.motorionline.com/2008/01/18/motogp-presentazione-yamaha-la-composizione-dei-due-team/
In 2004 another team (as I wrote) already had bikes with different tyres, Max was also there. They were not forced to put up the wall.
Read carefully when it comes to not passing data to the other party and tell me, in good conscience, if you really think it's likely that it all arose from the tires and not from the will of those who had the power to impose that decision.
No, not tires developed by Michelin for Ducati, I'm referring to the special tires made for Vale and a select few others. With that system, Ducati was forced to switch to Bridgestone.
Compare the results of 2003 with those of 2004, how could Ducati be competitive when certain riders were provided with special tires for each track?
In what year did Max Biaggi stop? Do you remember what he said in interviews last year (2005)? This is how long it has been since the famous "rubbers" were talked about for the first time (how long did it take from knowing it to saying it? A year? then we are in 2004), then everyone can believe it or not, I have always been used to being counter-proof and in this case, the result comes back, already in 2004 (there was even talk of Vale's great race in Yamaha in this regard) the "rubbers" began to come into circulation.
Kawa and Suzuki (but I'm not sure here) were in Bridgestone since 2003.
Not even with the Michelins given how things went. A motorbike always depends on 3 factors, rider, motorbike and tyres. Without one of these, you don't win. Even Bridgestone, without Ducati, would not have won the world championship in 2007 and perhaps the sole supplier would not have been reached.
With "ifs" and "buts", you never get anywhere.
The wall was created for a different reason, the different tires have nothing to do with it.
Pedrosa moved to Bridgestone on 14 September 2008, perhaps because Vale also had them. if anything, Pedrosa's behavior is not singular, but Vale's is not.
I found it strange that the same team had 2 types of tires available. It's still an advantage, when the Michelins were good, Lorenzo won (so to speak) otherwise Vale won. It's this fact that doesn't add up to me, certainly not the fact that Vale wanted Bridgestones.
But in 2010, no one remembers the first races? Out of 3 races, Stoner crashed out 2 times and was in front.
They didn't solve the problems, I wrote that they realized the problems, only at the end because the falls made previously were archived as "the usual Stoner mistakes".
Ronnie, who wanted this bike at all costs? Who wanted aluminum at all costs? Of course this is Ducati now, but it wasn't before and before, that Ducati had its cards to play, Hayden was also reasonably competitive, certainly not like Melandri some time before.
Yes, well, you're one of those who makes his own film. Go listen to Melandri, he's telling the truth, it's his story about the rubbers, yes maybe they made them up on the circuit that same night, go and retrieve the BCS posts, he explained to you why the rubbers couldn't exist... it takes months to make a tire and put it on the track you need aging... but BCS, thanks to this bullshit, you made it escape.
I repeat to you too, did the tire manufacturers want the wall in the pits that Rossi di Lorenzo didn't care about in 2008? He was a Rookie, you understand...
As much as you want to screw it, the Ducati with the aluminum frame is better than the one with the carbon one, not because the one with the monocoque was basically worse, but always because of the usual story of the tyres, with a single manufacturer that bases the development of tyres, on motorcycles with a light alloy frame with certain specifications and windows of use, it is not possible to run with a completely different technical solution and obtain better results, in Ducati they are now struggling to keep the tires within the window of use, imagine with the monocoque frame and monocoque swingarm, which among other things also always gave Stoner feeling problems on the front, and that was the reason why he was lying down, because the monocoque gave him unclear sensations to interpret and I think that only Stoner knew how to ride that motorbike, because he is someone who, even if the motorbike wasn't perfect, risked more than the others; this was when he was with Ducati, when he returned to Honda he had a machine that was up to the task and began to manage the race better tactically.
I mentioned Melandri because he had poor times compared to Hayden and the bike was better, based on Stoner's performances in 2008 and when Hayden arrived.
It was Max Biaggi who talked about it for the first time. If you listen to the interviews he gave in 2005, in light of what became known a few years later, certain "phrases" already said a lot. Then he was kicked out of MotoGP, precisely for these half-admissions.
The "rubbers" were admitted by all those directly involved and they also explained how they did it. The tires were like this because during the tests data on wear and temperatures were collected, then between Saturday and Sunday, some supported on site, others only spoke about the races in Europe for transport reasons, the tires were prepared with the most suitable compounds .
Why did the wall remain even when they were both racing with Bridgestones?
The wall was there throughout the first partnership between Vale and Lorenzo, which ended in 2010. If it had only been due to the difference in tyres, there would no longer have been any reason to have it in subsequent years.
The tires did their part, it's very true, but the main problem wasn't the frame which didn't make the tires work, it was the positioning of the bike's center of gravity, it was too far behind and too low, that's why they started to turn the engine and move everything forward as much as possible. This year, you know the surprise when it was finally understood that Honda had the same opening (90°), but had found an excellent balance. If you remember, there was a lot of talk about decreasing the angle of the Desmo, but apart from the dimensions, the power would also have been affected.
It's just a matter of finding the right balance. The carbon frame used on the Panigale, logically revised, has made all those who have used it say that it has a "scary" front, in the best sense of the term, unfortunately the super-quadro engine has a range of use that is too limited and revs too high, the Panigale no longer has the same agility as the 1099 because it no longer exits slow corners like its sister. Specifically, the problem lies in the shape of the combustion chamber, being super-square, it has very large pistons and the thickness between the piston and head is very small. In this conformation, already exasperated in itself, you have to think about the "undulations" created by the valves and whatever else is up there.
The problems were unknown until today because no one had ever tried a similar configuration, the Ducati (as well as the split chassis) was ahead of its time, unfortunately, as you well know, every innovation needs to be "refined".
...ENEA you cannot contradict the numbers...no matter how ultra-fundamentalist you are pro Rossi...there is a limit to everything...
But let's let the numbers speak...I'll divide it into parts...let's start from a very simple first consideration, without knowing how to read and write, let's see in the 5 GPs contested so far who did better in qualifying between Rossi on the world champion bike and Dovizioso on the gate …surprise of surprises!! Andrea beats Vale 4 – 1…..
Now explain this to me please...Rossi with the Ducati in two years also ranked behind the CRTs..BEHIND THE CRTs!!!! and when things went well for him it was Merdesimo to paraphrase desmoskull...Andrea is in the front rows with the same bike with which Rossi took packs of seconds in qualifying, furthermore the Forlivese is also ahead in the standings and still Parli??!!! VIOLENT PUNCHES!!!!
…you're stoned, it's useless, you don't understand…he'll be working, he has two jobs..he has to support his southern housewife wife…he'll even work illegally…like his skin ah, ah, ah!!!
Fatman mentions my Southern, housewife wife again and I'm personally coming to bust your ass.
Give yourself a limit, and I'll tell you again that the motorionline servers don't keep you as safe as you think.
Last warning.
…I'm not like you think either…I would hurt you a lot!!! If you want I'll come and visit you...
I don't give a damn about how you are, I don't think so, I just know that I don't bring your family into question, you don't bring mine into question.
You're a pexxo of mmerd@, and you only deserve a punch in the teeth.
Stone me
Hearing you say “ultrafundamentalist” can only make me laugh.
We're not talking about Rossi's disappointing season, but about the fact that Dovizioso's arrival in the Ducati didn't change anything, the bike was mediocre and the bike is mediocre, regardless of Rossi.
Point.
I only contradict those who talk about Andrea as the savior of the country, when it is clear that nothing has changed with the red, and Hayden's results are further confirmation of this.
Do you want to discuss this too?
Then it's obvious that Vale's season is going like crap, but the conversation from the beginning was about Ducati's season compared to 2012.
Why don't you then say that Dovi set the qualifying time next to Bradl??
Rossi was going alone, and he set the best time for Marquez, who was a tenth ahead of him.
Without the trail games we would have had rossi5, marc6 and dovi 7...
Hayden also did the time in the wake of Rossi.
And without Alvaro Dovi's blunder he would have perhaps taken 7th place...
Vale easily had a 48 and a half on 20 lap tyres.
See stoners, we note that the season is below expectations, but this is not enough for you hysterical stoner widowers, you have to shit on reds, and now you're also taking it out on Marc who is guilty of having erased stoner from your memories of those eager for crazy horses on the track.
From tomorrow I'll be supporting Marc just to fuck you anti-red people.
Aeneas
….In 5 races Dovizioso has put Rossi behind him 4 times in qualifying and is ahead in the world championship…Rossi rides the world champion bike with which Jorge did a monstrous race at Mugello and is second in the championship…Dovizioso rides a Ducati...and under everyone's eyes, Dovizioso is proving to be much more competitive than Rossi on the Ducati..certainly Andrea won't win the World Championship but at least he's not the agony of a rider that Rossi was. he destroyed more fairings in two years than Stoner in his entire career... anyway, stay united
…well done, support Marc and change once again after Biaggi, Rossi….now Marc…where the wind turns!!!
Stone me
You repeat bullshit like a parrot, you don't need to post if you don't even read my posts.
Let's end it here.
Hello.
Aeneas
...regular...and anyway it's been three years since Rossi has won a race and he doesn't seem capable of winning any others...you Rossians have to respect the verdict of the track more...and then he bothered with excuses...at every single race in the back there is an excuse...if I started from the front, the clutch, the tyre, Bautista...three years with zero victories...and 5 miserable podiums...
Be good, the track talks and is so talkative, even the time trial. I understand the disappointment of the yellow fans but the reality is hard to accept seeing what Yamaha is capable of (even the customers) all the bullshit of the guru meda and C. on the qualities of the Honda and the lack of power and acceleration of the Yamaha are regularly denied by the track and Mugello is unforgiving, it is a very technical track where power, acceleration, handling etc. are needed. translated into a nutshell, engine and chassis are an excellent match with the tyres. Yamaha remains at the top. hence the racking their brains about how the mega-super-champion CAN'T drive like Lorenzo (that's his reference) and they bring out a pestilential acid that infects the forum which then crosses over into certain situations.
this morning I saw 3 photographic sequences that take the 46/bautista accident from the front and honestly I see a 46 way off course that forced to close to take the next curve closes on its left they meet bautista, what can I say to blame is very hard.
but what are you doing in tenth position super champion?? maybe the clutch wasn't working??? and enough with all the excuses!!!
a true compliment to Ligera for his non-biased and truthful posts.