MotoGP: Andrea Dovizioso “Stoner was a reference for everyone”
According to the Forlì native, the Australian who retired at the end of 2012 marked an era
Casey Stoner's career did not last as long as that of other champions, only 10 years (from 2002 to 2012) but his talent, his riding style and his exploits with Honda and Ducati were such that he scored a 'era, the Stoner era, in which it was the Australian who was the reference for many of his colleagues.
This is how Andrea Dovizioso, a new Ducati purchaser and probably the one who will have the responsibility of bringing the Borgo Panigale factory back to where Casey took it, or at least trying to, think so.
According to the Forlì native, Valentino Rossi, who no one wants to deny anything of what he brought to the world championship, perhaps had more charisma, but Stoner is the reference rider in recent years.
“Many things are changing” Dovizioso said to foxsports.com “Since I've been a fan of motorcycles, watching Casey ride has always been a spectacle and I will miss what he did and the way he did it on the bike in his own style”
“Without him it will be easier, because riders like him are difficult to beat, but I think Casey has changed MotoGP a lot.
For example, the approach to testing and the lines he took on the track. All riders try to study and improve, and Casey was one of those we took as a reference"
And according to Andrea, the Australian is even stronger than Valentino Rossi in terms of talent
“If you look back, no one was able to be strong and fast from the first or second lap. I remember when Valentino dominated in the post-race tests. He could, with three or four laps, set the same record times that he did in the race. Casey managed to do it on the first lap.
“But we have all become aware that this can be done and we can and must try to do it. However, no longer having such a great talent as a reference will be missed by everyone."
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EEEEEEEEEEE don't tell me how much I will miss you!!!!!
Absolutely agree with everything!
Having been the only one to have gone fast on the Ducati, there must be a reason, something that (perhaps) all the riders who tried it have noticed and admitted.
It's about time even those who still don't admit it understood it.
Casey Stoner unique and true N.1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let's hope in Marc who from impressions is on the right path!
To the kind attention of the following friends:
H954RR LIGERA ENEA FATMAN TESTONER BIBO STONAMI77 AND ALL THE FORISTS OF THE COMPANY..
I WOULD LIKE FOR ANYONE WHO WANTED TO GIVE ME AN OPINION AS IT WOULD BE INTERESTING HOW YOU INTERPRET THESE STATISTICS DONE BY ME AND TAKEN FROM THE WIKI AS DATA.
THANKS IN ADVANCE AND HAPPY SUNDAY!!
IN VALE'S POST “REJUVENATED”
But does anyone still have doubts?
Even VR (always light years ahead of its fans) admitted that he is the best in terms of absolute talent…
and for the fundamentalist canaries educated by mediaset to repeat their sentences "like a parrot" who don't believe them, you can hear the sentence directly from the lips of 46
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wr9qPGlefA
Sghembo and who might not agree with the statement:
“He's the best rider on the best bike”...?
At the time he said it, it was like this…
This is not to say that the best stoner was better than the best worth…
When Stoner arrived in the premier class, Rossi had already won 7 world championships in every category and with any bike...
You can't make a comparison between the two like you can between Pedro and Lorenzo for example...
Stoner took over Ducati at the age of twenty and had not yet won a chip, his first official... there are other emotions, other stimuli, everything different compared to a thirty-year-old who has already won 9 world championships...
I repeat that it makes little sense to compare the career of stoner (motogp), from 2006 to 2012, to that of vale which began in 2000...
A sportsman would understand it... ;)
Having said this, in 4 years of HRC he was always world champion, except for his debut in the 500 where he only came second...
In just 2 years Stoner won the first, and managed to lose the second against both Pedro and Lorenzo... thanks to his famous "head"... ;)
Aeneas
Aeneas
@Aeneas,
I have always had great respect for VR and no one wants to take anything away from him (I'm not among those who believe he won by plotting us from above even though he probably had some help during his career that he absolutely didn't need), but if the entire motoring world consecrates a talent, I don't see why the canaries should insist on always saying that their idol is better.
I repeat, I have nothing against VR, having drivers like this: it's 90% of its fans (first and foremost the Mediaset gang) who don't like me
Agree on everything, but then you should also turn to those 90% of stoner fans who do the same... ;)
Aeneas
@Aeneas. and no dear friend Enea... we started when you, following the 45+1, thought it would win for: electronics, petrol in the chassis, superior bike (but where??), 1200 cc, etc etc... go back over the years and you will understand... you have tried to destroy him in every way, even saying that he retired in 2008 due to the pressure... it's normal that after everything has been explained, read, and declared that everything backfires!! do not you think???
I have never denied Casey's great talent... and I liked him a lot since the 250, but I never considered him the demi-god like you do...
You persist in saying that the Ducati won "despite" it, and you still don't understand that, based on the specific riding style that a rider has, the bike can be good or weak...
How else can you explain that in 2007 with Ducati he won the same number of GPs as he did in 2011 with Super Honda, scoring more or less the same points?
If he were that Martian you say, who dominated despite the ducati, he should have won them all in 2011, and he should have done the same in 2012...
Ducai was a good bike for the Casey style... weak for the other styles... even devastating for the poor Melandri...
Then having said this... as disciple says, having drivers like Casey... no one denies his great talent... ;)
Aeneas
Aeneas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WTREc9gjI8
Every time I read you this scene comes to mind.
anyway every time you write you take the words off my keyboard.
HEHEHEE… :D
Aeneas
blah blah blah balllalalallabaababaalala
ke00!!
I'm like, it's worth it, which among other things isn't as stupid as you say
it's very simple
Stoner is number 1. The only flaw he has is Mr Rossi who in the race is the only one who has proven to beat him.
Since they have been running together, more matches have been won by reds than by stoners.
how would this year have gone?
We'll never know since he retired.
Then I'll say my opinion because I don't think what I said above otherwise it's like that.
For me in the race wins is worth more times than stoner.
removed it is worth it, no one beats it
strong, very strong, in terms of talent however not comparable to valentino. a driver has many characteristics, in some he excels, in others he doesn't. stoner is everything the good Andrea said, but the value in the race was and is stronger.
and personally, to date, Lorenzo is also a bit better in the race. we agree on the way to ride, to set the times, to smash the bikes whatever they are. but the complete driver is also the one who wins races, many races, but above all the world championships (even if he doesn't win many races: P see Lorenzo).
Damn, you haven't seen this one, why not?? ha ha ha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkxRTVtKCZk
...guys, he's gone...let's look ahead...it's clear that the real phenomenon of recent years has been lost but that's enough...it reminds me a lot of when Spencer retired...people said: "I won't watch the races…he will be missed dearly…”…racing goes in cycles like everything else in life…one day we will see someone else like Stoner or maybe stronger…
But of course we need to look ahead, but come on, it's still early, we need to allow ourselves a bit of nostalgia.
In fact I said it: let's hope for Marc.
I am sincere!
I'm rather BURNED by the fact that he retired since, in addition to losing the best rider with a riding spectacle, I miss the comparison we were all waiting for, that of reds and stoners with similar bikes.
NOW INSTEAD I HAVE TO GET PISSED IN THE HOLE
AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!
@fatman. but how the fuck can we look forward... after years of accusations saying nonsense that he won for the motorbike for electronics for petrol in the frame... this guy really made us "JUMP OFF THE SOFA AT EVERY BEND"!!!!! and then the story of sooner or later another one will arrive... can you tell me where there is another maradona or another vilneuve or another kewin??? pure emotion just looking at them….sorry for the outburst…
…would you have ever said after seeing Spencer in action that there would be Kevin first and Casey after? There will be a new Casey... that's all... I'm colder than you because I've never supported anyone, I don't give a f@zz@ about comparisons between one driver and another, I live the races and enough...I don't need to identify with anyone like some yellowish troll in this forum, I'm already number one!!!
…Messi is stronger than Maradona…I understand that you are from Naples, the reality is this…the wheel turns, it never stops…a bit like my R1…
@fatman. hahaha you're too nice fat… I'm not saying you're wrong in what you say… but if you tell me that Messi is stronger than Maradona I'll shoot you!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahaha. what did he do for the national team??? it's easy to have a team that plays for you!!!! he did everything himself. and then enough with this r1… which as said to h954 I'll put you on the outside after a sharp braking and I'll steal a cylinder from you!!!!!!!!!
..ah, ah, ah...a cylinder...so it becomes a Triumph for me...wonderful...these articles are made especially for canaries, inferior beings who have to let off steam, don't listen...in any case Messi is stronger (now I imitate them ah, ah, ah)…
testoner means that we will bet 10kg of cherries that will arrive soon, ok?
so go dig before the cherries run out
@stefanuccio. nice phrase go digging... have you ever digged??? in my opinion no.. but you should learn from someone who in the last two years has also gone hoeing from the straight laguna seca... and not only that. record holder of falls?? probably yes. but go and see who are better at taking data…. I try to remember by heart.
tester…
Aeneas
ee ene… what happens??
The wheel turns; we need to look ahead; and so on and so forth... All true, for goodness sake, but watching certain pilots, even after 30 years or more, is always a spectacle, they are sensations that are renewed every time. The riders who made the history of this sport continue to be current, always.
Making comparisons between riders who reached their peak at different times is never easy, in fact, in some ways I find it impossible, but the sensations they give... it's magnificent.
Just to refresh everyone's memory, I'll post some addresses to revisit (revisit because you will have already seen them and who knows how many times).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI3lMID2xLA (here you will see the whole 500 British 1981 GP)
Hockenheim 1991 (1/4) Schwantz vs Rainey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrLRCfj8uko
Hockenheim 1991 (2/4) Schwantz vs Rainey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L_nCXh4uxg
Hockenheim 1991 (3/4) Schwantz vs Rainey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqS_Nj6CMd4
Hockenheim 1991 (4/4) Schwantz vs Rainey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed8IJQKOFPA
Here is the entire 1991 Hockenheim race, pure spectacle.
these were cardiogram races…. unfortunately not everyone has experienced these races.. and you can see it from how they write..! great ligera.
Hello testers, between one joke and another, fishing from the addresses I have memorized, I watched some old races again and, considering that here we talk a lot about Laguna Seca, I post these 2 videos, of battles between Kenny Roberts VS Randy Mamola , right at Laguna Seca (1985) to see how people drove back in the day, without electronic aids. They were wild madmen. I recommend everyone to waste a few minutes because they really deserve it, it's a shame about Giappy's comment.
They are summaries of the races at Laguna Seca, but they are summaries of total panic.
They are races of the AMA 500 championship, race 1 and race 2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7_WAeCe8oE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVTO387oaiQ
beautiful.. beautiful!! front tire without loss... in single wheel at kawatappi.. well other(2) times.
Starting from the premise that in terms of pure speed I consider Stoner a hair faster not only than vale but also than lore, pedro etc etc..
It's a bit like if tomorrow Barrichello said that Hamilton is stronger than Shumy, envy plays bad jokes... ;)
Already Ambizioso got irritated every time they interviewed him, and instead of being interested in his race, they invariably asked him: "what do you think of the vale race?"... hehehe he got angry... then he lost the official Yamaha (which he didn't deserve after his passed to HRC) and therefore…
This passage is also clarifying…
“If you look back, no one was able to be strong and fast from the first or second lap. I remember when Valentino dominated in the post-race tests. He could, with three or four laps, set the same record times that he did in the race. Casey could do it on the first lap.”
As I was saying... That is, in absolute terms, he loses a little bit in terms of pure speed, despite this he is that champion who, alas, will never be a stoner, because he simply does not have a motorcycling intelligence, not even remotely comparable to that of Rossi.
Proof of this is the 2008 season, but above all the 2012... on Super Honda.
Now go wild and set the little red thumb on fire!!! EHEHEHEHE :D
Aeneas
@Aeneas. the one that really suffered from pressure was the 45+1 in the last 2 years. did you see the interviews at the end of the race???
It made him suffer ducati... ;)
But the ordeal is over... ;)
Aeneas
POR END!! THANK YOU
DEVOTEES!!
Some people (Aeneas first and foremost) have only two things to cling to... Laguna Seca 2008 and Stoner's injury in 2012... meanwhile the statistics tell us that from 2007 to 2012 Stoner won the same world championships as Rossi but he won more races of '46, he achieved more podiums, more records and fastest laps... the rest was all.
The comparison on the track was won by Stoner..on the track..not on the blogs or forums..
and since 2007 how many duels have you won with reds?
how many world cups? Rossi no.. he didn't fall, no.. he didn't break his leg and he won because he still hadn't gotten off his crutches.
I think it's 3rd 1st 1st 3rd broken leg, not bad at the ankle.
On paper on the menu the lobster is still red..
OHHHHHH Mike but Casey was on a Ducati, is it possible that the bike for you only sucks when you ride it and it fails red?
absolutely not because I've always said that Stoner was great but the other Ducatis were last.
in fact, hats off to you. but I repeat, what data matters?
world championships and placements and duels. if pedrosa then he is the best without even a world championship.. always podium always pol but in the end what did he achieve
I have always thought that "numbers" give the reality of things, not the truth.
As an example I bring a champion of another sport, Villeneuve. He never won a world championship, he didn't even win a huge amount of races, but no one doubts that he was a true champion, more champion than those who were winning the world championships at the same time.
Stoner and Vale are 2 phenomena and each has points of maximum excellence and some flaws. To say which of the 2 prevails is frankly impossible for me. Both contributed to making the history of motorcycling, some on one side, some on the other. Vale won a lot and was spectacular in overtaking, Stoner won less (in numerical terms, not in percentage I think), but he has a driving style that has made history, everyone tried to imitate him thinking that if he could do it, then they could do it too, only to then realize (Vale docet) that that style belongs to the champions. Vale needed to ride a docile motorbike and with it he was able to do what others were unable to do, Stoner needed to have a motorbike (any) and with it he did things that were impossible for everyone else, champions or not. Both with the Ducati and the Honda he went where others didn't imagine it was possible (just look at the videos).
Vale was an undisputed champion, Stoner became one (for the majority, not for me and a few others) only when Vale "cleared" him and, even if Vale fans now write that Stoner is now a recognized champion, there are many who fear having to admit it and continue to write that he won in 2007 due to the tyres, that he won in 2011 due to the superiority of the Honda. I still feel the fear of admitting Stoner's skills for fear that it might be said that the Australian is stronger than the Italian.
They are 2 phenomena, there is no doubt and they are 2 different phenomena. A pilot who manages to have the best qualities of both would certainly be an unattainable phenomenon.
Writing that Dovizioso says certain things about Stoner for ulterior motives is... I can't find the right words. Dovi, whether we want to admit it or not, said what he thinks and what he really is. I'm sorry for the Vale fans, but it's very true that the rider to imitate is no longer Valentino Rossi (even from the other of his 9 titles), the "baton" has passed to Stoner's wrist, from the bottom of his 2 titles he has taught even more that "the pilot is the most important part". Some time ago it was Valentino who said that the rider was more important than the bike, but in these 2 years with Ducati he has demonstrated exactly the opposite, without the bike of his dreams, Vale has become a rider like everyone else. Stoner, on the other hand, started with a customer bike and immediately showed how important a capable rider is, then there was the apotheosis when he moved to Ducati, closing the circle in Honda.
Dovizioso only told the pure truth.
@ligera. It's not like me... but there are no words for what you wrote!!! better make me a montenegro…
99% agree!
I only disagree on the fact that he is a normal rider and that the baton has been passed to stoner.
If I haven't misunderstood, I must thank you for your consideration.
The previous post was for Testoner.
Mike 58, don't take sentences out of context. I didn't write that Vale is a normal rider, I wrote that "without the bike of his dreams" he proved to be a normal rider.
In Ducati he achieved performances comparable to those of Hayden and Hayden (I don't mind the American, also because I have great respect for him) is not exactly the champion that everyone would like to be.
@ligera. you didn't misunderstand. You wrote and analyzed everything wonderfully (in my opinion). but I repeat: what a desire to write….
light
Sorry, I agree 99.99,9%
dear enea casey has done the good and the bad weather whatever vehicle he had under his ass....when others also demonstrate that they can do the same, comparisons will be able to be made, for now casey in these 10 years is the reference without gnawing and /or behind the scenes.
……..the rest is bar chatter.
I'll answer you in the reply to the sghembo post... ;)
Aeneas
number one stoner….
:-)))))))))))))))))
Rossi should have understood this in these two years….
It's simply funny to compare two incomparable motorcycle entities like Stoner and Rossi.
Stoner is a god on one level of driving, and Rossi is a god on another level which does not only include driving (where he is perhaps surpassed by Stoner) but no one beats him in terms of race vision, bike preparation, strategy, MENTAL STRENGTH in duel in competition, etc etc etc.
Rossi is the championship animal par excellence;
Stoner is the "single race" animal par excellence (then if he wins many, he obviously wins the Championship too).
Therefore two separate excellences, EACH unbeatable in their own specialty.
Therefore it is a bit of an idiot to try to establish IF one of the two surpasses the other!
One thing is certain: whether Dovizioso, or Ambizioso, or Envious, in another 100 years he will never become either 1 Stoner or 1 Rossi.
I may be mean but you make me laugh...
out of sympathy... let's be clear.
AND HOW TO OPEN THE EYES OF DEVOTEES..
I knew I was screwed by withdrawing…
well... facts matter, but it seems that here they are free to interpret...
mike remember THE LAGOON MONSTER.
Casey still dreams about it at night.
in fact… who has won the most in the lagoon?? who is nicknamed the monster of the lagoon??? good, good... then you talk about hoeing...
Su lagoon still has stoner nightmares
@mike. you're right... the nightmares that made him retire... that the regulations are not the same for everyone...
Stoner, on the other hand, during his very first years in the premier class, would have gone into an existential crisis and would have embarked on a mystical journey of purification... hihihi ^^
Aeneas
Stoner, on the other hand, during his very first years in the premier class, would have gone into an existential crisis and would have embarked on a mystical path of purific@ztion… hihihi ^^
Aeneas
Imagine instead if in his career vr had had the bikes that Casey rode, not only would he have gone into an existential crisis and would have embarked on a mystical path of purification but he would have then committed suicide!
On the other hand, think of what Casey would have won if in his career he had had the same bikes as vr other than 9/105, or even 15/220 at least, hihihihi!
He had the right bike for the last two years and managed to lose in the second... ;)
I told you everything... ;)
Aeneas
have you responded to yourself in these 2 years?
??????? I didn't understand you.
I'll ask you a question instead, think about everything that has always been said about your protégé over the years and in your opinion if someone wins only with the best bike and with the poorly performing one he ends up like everyone has had the opportunity to see, he's the great one who has he always supported himself?
Even if I already know the answer, let's see what you tell me.
H954RR
I don't know if you're talking to me or Mike, and in any case I didn't quite understand what you wanted to say in the last post.
Aeneas
It's for you Aeneas, I mean everything that has always been said: that it is a phenomenon, the strongest of all, driving over problems, second in the pulse etc. given that you have to criticize Casey, accusing him of a crisis and other things, in your opinion, if someone is good at winning only on the best bikes and makes you laugh on those that aren't at the top, are these all things deserved?
then H..
you who understand
let's repeat again...
Rossi moved from Honda which was always the best bike to Yamaha which wasn't at the level of Honda.. or prove me wrong if you have the balls..
he was clearly inferior, ok, and he won..
Stoner, by coincidence, like Rossi, compensated for the bike by being a phenomenon. DOES ALL OF YOU AGREE? well let's move on
I'm not even arguing about Ducatis but I do argue that I don't think we can say that Stoner has done more than Rossi.
already that Rossi won from the 1st race and how many world championships on Yamaha and Stoner won with Ducati (HAT OFF) then coincidentally the following year Rossi won again. Then?? to yes red ducats = shit
Stoner honda 1 world and the other? and 250? and in 125? and most duels with reds?
anyway no one denies the stoner's talent and what he would have achieved but to win in a competitive race with reds??
yes sometimes.. but more times the reds won.
if you have the balls to deny it, shit, the 1st time I return to Italy I'll advance and steal my inheritance.. that is, all the races recorded since I've been following are valid. which I hope my father didn't record on it...
and I post them all on you tube and counting!!
and yes today I am combative!!
ENEA lend me the gloves
don't worry mike don't worry...!! nothing happened…!!! :OR
EHEHEHEHEHEH :D
Aeneas
Okay Mike and Enea (even if the latter didn't answer me), as anticipated I already knew …………. but he does nothing.
However, I never said I understood more than others, don't put things in my mouth that I never said.
Now let's analyze the points.
1: before Rossi's arrival, Yamaha had a 900 displacement and carburettors
2: with the arrival of Rossi, Yamaha made an agreement with Michelin costing €900000 for the exclusive tires that Honda (in a huge mistake) had rejected
3: with the arrival of Rossi, Yamaha invested 10 times as much to make the Nova 1000 displacement and injection motorbike
These are not things said by me but things said at the time and verified as truthful by MotoGP people and never denied.
Well, for the comparison with ducati it is better to ignore it.
If we do it in the same years since they raced together, the numbers are in Casey's favor.
And to finish the discussion, as I have already said more than once, Rossi may also be an excellent driver but Casey, apart from media capacity where he is inferior in everything else, is superior, period.
What do you think Rossi is unbeatable?
That no one is better than him?
Eh eh!
Sorry, you're on your own personal and free crusade for redheads, but are you okay?
At least get paid for supporting videos on YouTube and for everything else, at least you get something in your pocket, right?
Then what do you get angry about doing, you know that these are subjective opinions and however debatable.
H954RR
You know well that if I haven't responded yet it's certainly not due to a lack of things to say... ;)
I had 24..."intense" hours...
Then you are free to think that I don't know how to answer... ;)
Aeneas
Dearest Aeneas, you misunderstood me, it's not like you said, I meant something else.
Don't worry, don't immediately think badly!
H
NO GIRL I NEVER GET MISSED, IN FACT I HAVE A LOT OF FUN WITH YOU THEN MINE IS ALWAYS AN IRONIC TONE.. EVEN IF IT BECOMES DIFFICULT TO TRANSMIT IT IN WRITING.. HE HE
I SAY YOU UNDERSTAND MORE THAN ME BECAUSE I don't know many things in terms of mechanics etc. but I enter into the verbal battle with friends of the forum already considering you as such and obviously it's open war on the topic of red stoners, red ducatis and like milan yuve or right or left there is no dialogue he he he
The only thing is that here people pull the statistics out of their sleeves and as a poor ignorant person, if they are still intact I have the races recorded and therefore it is the only comparison I can make..
And kiaro I love stoner since I saw him in 500 but I'm aware of the facts... I repeat that the only weak point of the pilot is the doctor. And for me it's a fact. On the other hand, I think he's the only one of the big names that having red on him doesn't affect him in the slightest, is Lorenzo and he was SuperSic.
What bothers me is that they insist on passing off red as boiled meat, as if stoners ate it for breakfast.
It seems to me that whether he is nice or not, he cannot be denied what he has given to the GP..
But I'm sorry, stoner, whatever you want... but he hasn't given to world motorbikes what Rossi has given up to now. The point of reference has always been Rossi and if it hadn't been for the Ducati era I doubt that the spotlight would have moved so much on Stoner and Lorenzo... then oh obviously I respect everyone's opinions.
The beauty of it, however, is the comparison, isn't it?
sorry if I exaggerated.. hehehhe
H954RR
I'll continue to answer you in the last post... ;)
It's useless for us to answer each other at the same time here and there... ;)
Aeneas
X Mike 58
I'll try to prove you wrong, balls or no balls.
Do you remember who the official Yamaha riders were in 2003? No? I'll remind you. Alex Barros (7 career wins) and Carlos Checa (2 career wins). Furthermore, in 2004, Barros moved to the factory Honda and developed Rossi's bike so well that he didn't even win a race (if I remember correctly). Yamaha was not clearly inferior to Honda, only those who hung on the lips of certain "journalists" can take this "urban legend" at face value. Try re-reading the interviews given by Valentino in the winter of 2004. Then, as others have already reported, Vale immediately found 2 types of engine and 3 chassis from which to choose, he didn't have to try the old material and start from there fix the flaws "created" by those who directed development before him. Carlos Checa, who remained in Yamaha alongside Vale, took 40 seconds (from Vale) in the first race.
Mike I don't give reds like boiled I have already said that he is an excellent rider but Casey according to me has much more, for me the difference already from the first day in vr ducati just got off the day before Casey is overwhelming proof of this.
And as you said well, it's a shame that now that vr is on an equally competitive bike, Casey has retired, we would both have had the last confirmation that is missing.
ha ha ha ha nothing but intolerance to milk after lagoon..
Lightweight
I don't understand what you want to tell me, if you like, give me a clearer picture, sorry if I don't take it straight away.
H..
for me stoner goes faster than red and if he had stayed perhaps he would have won more. But in the race I think Rossi is the strongest rider. Not because the stoner doesn't have the ability, otherwise the fact that he suffers is worth it. This is my impression, probably if he had Lorenzo's character he would be unbeatable.
If he had stayed maybe he would have digested it and maybe there wouldn't have been any more.
what bothers me is here where I say it and sign it..
is that the damned thing will be back in a couple of years. and we will never know.
But I'm not saying this because I'm interested in proving anything. I don't give a damn if depuniet wins for example.. if he was better I scream and jump on the armchair and cheer him on if he beats it or not.
I say this because they would have been two unforgettable years.. I don't know if you understand me..
It all starts from your post from February 13th (7 posts before mine posted on the 14th) and you write:
“Rossi moved from Honda which was always the best bike to Yamaha which wasn't at the level of Honda.. or prove me wrong if you have the balls..
he was clearly inferior, ok, and he won..”
I wanted to highlight that the Yamaha was not significantly inferior to the Honda when Vale went to ride it (in 2004). Yamaha's terrible year (2003) is not attributable to the bike, but to the riders (mainly).
It was certain "journalists" who spread the story of the "throwaway Yamaha", in this way excessive credit was attributed to Vale. Vale himself, in several interviews, said what I am saying, that is, that Yamaha was already at a good point.
yes he said it wasn't that bad and he certainly didn't find the situation he found in ducati I don't doubt that when you win it's easy to be gallant and get credit given to you but go and watch these interviews then tell me if you like the source well and what do you think.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/antonio-cairoli-campione-del-mondo-2011-per-5-volte/129190813846810
Challenges…
LAYON
I apologize to Lyon 1st or later I'll copy them and upload them to YouTube I'll warn you
then in my opinion the thing cannot be judged so the bike counts as much as the team etc
for me there are riders who haven't won much but who in my opinion are very, very tough and you have named 2 who cannot be said to be out of class for me if the bikes and tires were all = maybe it's worth he wouldn't have won like that but there wouldn't even be as much difference between the drivers as there is now for the numbers. or between the new generation with those of the old for example for me
so much
biaggi capirex gibernau checa barros who was a phenomenon always in the right place at the wrong time peò.. etc.
and to say... I'd like to see depuniet on an official Yamaha or on a Honda, I don't know if you know what I mean. In my opinion there isn't an exaggerated difference between these and the new ones... for goodness sake there is...
but the boss with his years if they gave him the official Honda or Yamaha I think he would be there to annoy Rossi and company.
I don't know if I explain myself?? for me the only 2 who are aliens are red and stoner, I see all the others as very close with the same resources
Then how many years has it been since Yamaha won a world championship? have they always got the pilots wrong? so after Rossi went to Yamaha did Honda ignore the choice of riders?
I'm just asking to continue the conversation, not to insult him... just because I think you know and I'm interested in the point of view you're giving him.
Stoner is very strong, especially with crazy bikes that require strong riding like his.
In fact, in 125 and 250 he didn't do much because they were bikes that had to be ridden like Biaggi and not by force.
We can instead say that Rossi has won in all championships with all bikes except with Ducati.
Despite being a fan of his, I certainly don't forget that when I climbed over the gate for the first time he took two seconds from Stoner the day before, but for me Rossi is more complete
Okkio he is revealing truths that not everyone can understand...
Look at what happened to Galileo
I don't think it takes a genius to come to these conclusions :)
(Ross cheering, let's be clear)
Stoner will be missed by everyone, but he's gone... Chapter closed.
Everyone will leave sooner or later (from Rossi to Lorenzo etc...), of course there are great champions who will be missed and missed, but when one retires his story ends. And when someone does it it's because he feels "at peace", he feels like he has given everything...
the direct comparison between stoners and Rossi has been
it's not a comparison between drivers from two different eras
Rossi lost it…
Imagine if instead of Hayden Rossi he had had Stoner as a companion in Ducati...
you're wrong!
It is absolutely a comparison between pilots of different eras: there is an almost 7 year age difference between one and the other! (Urbino, 16 February 1979 vs. Southport, 16 October 1985)
And 7 years in this sport is an abyss.
Not only that, when Stoner won his first World Championship Rossi had already won 8!! and therefore the motivations and many other things change!!
So let's do a little potato spirit, please...
:-)
And in any case also for these reasons and not only for these, I continue to maintain that it is foolish to compare the two by trying to determine which of the two is the better.
Rossi is a god in choosing:
teammates
motorcycle
tires…………………….
@bibo. but it's not good like this... if you carry on like this I'll leave it alone and stay with you!! ahahhahahahahhah..
mike 58
how funny you are!!!
Everyone continues to say that Stoner was a phenomenon on the Ducati but no one remembers a certain Capirossi who without the famous accident in 2006 could have been the first phenomenon to win with the Ducati... think about it people think about it
@dario. I'm not going to contradict myself... but with the 2006 thousand, even the reds would have won.
effectively…..
won with an inferior bike????
haahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaa
in these two years how come he hasn't finished a bat????
prrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
To Mike to refresh your memory of when they raced together:
GPs held: Casey 115 / vr 119
Wins: Casey 38 / vr 26
Win Rate: Casey 33,0% / vr 21,8%
Podiums: Casey 69 / vr 60
Pole: Casey 39 / vr 19
Podium percentage: Casey 33,9% / vr16,0%
Motorcycle, this is important:
Casey: 2006 Honda LCR (i.e. last choice)
2007 2008 2009 2010 official Ducati
2011 2012 Honda HRC.
vr: 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 Official Yamaha
2011 2012 official Ducati.
The comparison on the Ducati:
Wins: Casey 23 / vr 0
Pole: Casey 21 / vr 0
Podiums: Casey 42 / vr 3
Comparison between all the (official only) Ducati riders:
VICTORIES:
Stoner 23 Capirossi 7 Bayliss 1 Rossi 0 Hayden 0 Melandri 0 Gibernau 0 Checa 0
POLE:
Stoner 21 Capirossi 8 Gibernau 1 Rossi 0 Hayden 0 Melandri 0 Bayliss 0 Checa 0
PODIUMS:
Stoner 42 Capirossi 23 Bayliss 5 Haiden 3 Rossi 3 Checa 2 Gibernau 0 Melandri 0
Perfect..I want to see if they have the courage to also deny the statistical data which shows that since Stoner has been in MotoGP he has been the fastest and most victorious rider...H954RR was too honest to also consider Stoner 2006...otherwise if we take for reference the comparison only on official motorbikes the Tavulliano comes out even worse!!
Stonami77 hello, hihihi, you see how nice it is we continue to discuss and put "evidence" on the table but we always think differently (our side and theirs) and both for those who are right and for those who are wrong the opinion is impossible to change At least it's fun!
What I already answered to Bibo is valid: they are drivers from different eras, with different palmares, not comparable to each other.
When Stoner, almost 7 years Rossi's junior, won his first World Championship, Rossi had already won 8.
With all that comes with it….
Riders from different eras...who have battled on the tracks in recent years...and data in hand. The Australian won two world titles like Rossi...only he was faster and more successful, he took more podiums and triumphed where the 46 failed big time... lastly I remind you that Rossi hasn't won a race for more than two years... Stoner was pilloried for much less... anyway Stoner knocked him out of tune big time!
and what will these numbers be... in 2006 the 45+1 was already in a declining phase... what comparisons are you making. he was driving a Yamaha, not a Honda or a Ducati... the worst that could be in the GP.
H954RR
My question will be simple and concise, and is addressed to you as well as to all those who believe in your numbers.
Have you ever played competitive sports?
I'm referring to serious levels, in the sense that sport becomes your profession...?
Just answer yes or no.
Aeneas
enea
No at a level that becomes a profession, but I have done competitive sport and I have also achieved some victories, not in motorcycling.
I don't know if it counts but I also have the Formula3 license.
But I don't understand the connection of all this.
PS the numbers are not a matter of believing or not, they are actual and published data.
Answering you just “yes” or “no” seemed too reductive to me.
Now I'll explain the connection... ;)
Anyone who starts a sporting career as a child, and continues to experience it along with the various stages of physical development, starting from childhood until after 30, knows where I want to go.
To be short, in most cases, your approach, performance and more vary enormously from stage 20-28 to stage 28-34….
You can make a comparison between Lorenzo and Pedrosa, but not between Rossi and stoner, at least not in the terms in which you make it.
Take into consideration the first 6-7 years in Vale's premier class, and do the same with stoners.
I don't want to belittle Stoner, or justify Vale, but like it or not it's like that.
Aeneas
Uhhhmm yes, it could be, but take the example of Max, he won at the age of 41 in a much more competitive category than MotoGP and with "youngsters" compared to him, so the age issue becomes a bit complicated.
To give you another example, I'll take myself, now with my advancing age on the road compared to a few years ago I have become a "sloth" but when I go (I used to go no more money) on the track if I don't go as before we're close, it's true that my bike compared to the MotoGP bikes is a Hi in comparison and it's also true that it's not the same thing but the ex. with Max I have doubts about this thing.
PS I'll say goodbye instead of putting red ones that say something, little guys!
@Aeneas. sorry terron power if I intrude... but do you know at what age he started running and how many national titles he won (don't confuse what I'm saying..)??? and how many races a day did he do?? let's not bring up the story of the age that doesn't stand up!! and then I remind you that in 500 2 "STROKES" they reached the threshold of 30... and even if they didn't start as early as now, those struggling bikes were worth 36 races... bye!!!
Sorry Enea, but I'm interjecting here too, because I have some experience in this regard, I have a degree in physical education and have coached football and basketball teams.
I have already written previously that I do not consider myself capable of giving such a judgment, but we are talking about a sport where the physique is important, but certainly not as it is for sports such as athletics, basketball, etc. As has already been said, Max won at 40 seconds, with a competitive bike of course, but so were the BMWs of Macio and Haslam. The Ducati SBK, in addition to being penalized with ballast and flanges that limited the air intake and driven by another forty-year-old (the legendary Carlos), performed well, winning several races, while his teammate, young and in full of physical prowess he achieved very little.
Motorcycling, like motor racing, are sports where age has a relative importance. A driver who is used to training well can have a much longer competitive life than athletes of other sports, even in football, there are goalkeepers (a role where the physique is preserved) who have been in their thirties for several years and are still competitive on a global level (see Buffon). I do not believe (personal opinion derived from my experience) that the age difference can be a determining factor in motorcycling. I find it much more important (and also for this reason I believe a true comparison is impossible) to evaluate the technological level of the means used in reference to the means used by opponents in the same period. The "value" of the opponents is also decisive. While Stoner faced Pedrosa, Lorenzo and Rossi, Valentino (pre-Stoner), had to compete with Biaggi, Gibernau and Capirex who, with all due respect to the latter, I don't think can be seriously compared to the first 3. We would then have to evaluate (as mentioned before) the technological difference of the means. Apart from the fact that Vale has always enjoyed the best on the market, he also had the mechanics at his disposal who belonged to Doohan (5 consecutive world championships), then, in the transition from 2 to 4 strokes, Honda had a 1 year (approximately) advantage on competition.
I find that these are more determining factors than simple chronological age.
I would like to point out again that, despite everything, a comparison between the 2 is unthinkable, but if it really has to be made, then the only thing to do, in order not to fall into exclusively empirical reasoning, is to base it on the "numbers", so as H954RR did.
ligera hi, more than just numbers they are facts given that 9/105 are often taken into account, aren't those numbers too?
But afterwards we never agreed on one thing or another.
As I also said to Stonami77 at least it's fun.
Hi H954RR, I think that “numbers” always tell the truth, but they never express reality because they do not take into account the circumstances in which the numbers were obtained. However, I recognize that to make comparisons or comparisons between riders, one cannot ignore the results obtained, but they are not the "answer" to all questions, at least according to my personal way of seeing it.
When making comparisons, you must always take into account the fact that you will never find yourself in agreement with someone who sees things in a diametrically opposite way. For every situation, even the clearest and most obvious, there will always be 2 ways of understanding the facts. This is why I only write to express my opinion and never to "convince" anyone.
Great libra, you think exactly like me, it's useless to convince anyone because what counts is your personal opinion, moreover that if one or the other wins or loses nothing comes out of your pocket as it doesn't matter if you talk about it well or badly. nothing changes.
Hello.
But in fact I didn't say that you can't win even at 40...
Max is a great champion, and he won on a great bike... despite his 40... ;)
Aeneas
yes Rossi it's really a lobster!!!
GO BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
you're all crazy here... I'm talking about the fans against... there's no point in coming up with numbers!!! so red even if he doesn't run for them anymore he still wins!!!!!!! it's like saying that the snow is hot or that fatman is a teetotaler...
AAAAh ah ah ah ah fatman teetotal, but you too are a tester……..
The beauty is approaching prepare the Kawa I'm preparing the Fifty, hihihi.
Hello.
…testoner, don't dare say something like that again or I'll sue you for defamation!!!
Teetotalers are those who have exaggerated until they are twenty and then calm down...
ahahahaha you are great!!! I'll wait for you both at Mugello... even if I'm inferior in engine capacity I'll beat both of you!!!!!!!!! I'm too strong for guys like you... I can already imagine you at the end of the day. .one with a bottle in his hand and the other complaining about the tires!!!!!!! ahahahah…
Ah ah ah, come on, I'll let you pass on the curve, I'll make you take a few meters and in retilineo I'll give you a low pass (my great specialty for making my friends take turns) just to peel off the stickers from the hull.
But then I'll give them back to you, hihihihi.
Hello testers!!!!!!!!!!!
Here we are in perfect harmony. I am the example of this. At the age of 15 I had 6 coke glasses full of "mother-in-law's milk" (for those who know him, you may think that he is telling a huge lie, but that is not the case at all). From the next day I said goodbye to spirits and limited myself to the classic beer, abandoned for a few glasses of wine only on special occasions.
PS: I only know about that night what my friends told me.
Ah ah ah great, I know what "Mother-in-Law's Milk" is, it's the BOMB. I tasted it as it is and for a while I no longer felt any taste!
Hihihihi, bye.
PS when the bottle label depicts a skull you already understand what liqueur it is!
Okay, so the more you have the more it seems to me that with stoner ducatis he stripped reds on the straight and reds caught up with him in the curves and in braking and in body to body.
Then,….
Everyone calm down guys... ;)
I didn't say that after 30 you should throw away..!!!!!
I simply pointed out the fact that it is not (IMHO) sensible to compare the 7 years of Stoner's relatively short career with Vale's contemporary one, given that Vale is dealing with the second half of his career in MotoGP...
Lightweight
Maximum respect for your degree and the teams you have trained, but you have to experience the change on yourself to understand... ;)
It's not necessarily on a physical level, not only at least... the things that at twenty seem vital to you, so you throw two hearts into it, at 30 they don't stimulate you in the same way, maybe physically you've changed little, but you lose part of that momentum, of that desire to necessarily want to be n1...
Look back with detachment at the early stages of Vale's career in 500 and then MotoGP, the absurd things he did, which gradually became increasingly rare...
He was a stoner only more stable, more constant and certainly more intelligent in overtaking, as well as devastating in melee.
Nobody denies Stoner's great talent and unique speed, but belittling the feats he has accomplished seems ridiculous to me, and the numbers would fit in a drawer if you don't know how to read.
Aeneas
Stra-Quotone for you! Aeneas,
I've been trying all my life to make him understand, but I've failed miserably....
I recognize how much better you are than me at explaining these concepts which are very simple, and therefore I am rooting for you to be able to make yourself understood on these bases,
because if the miracle happened the air would certainly become much more breathable…. ;-)
in fact the numbers can be read as is convenient otherwise they wouldn't compare 9 world championships of which many in a row or in a row with two world championships nn in a row of which 1 only with 2 years of honda and it's out of the picture..
then put the wiki the mathematics or whatever you want but it becomes difficult to find a basic sentence..
at this point I ask since we're talking about ifs and buts.. and if it's worth he was in good health and never got off the official Honda?
because if I remember correctly he on the official Honda was more dedicated to the show than to finishing by giving 2 laps to the 2nd.
Hi enea,
first the general discussion.
I also wrote and reiterated that I cannot make similar comparisons, but for other reasons (time period, available technology, type of opponents, etc.), certainly not because the winning mentality may be different in those who have won a lot. However, I also reiterate that, wanting to make a comparison between drivers, the only concrete starting point is the numbers, all the other systems are essential from passion and personal support. I may or may not like the numbers, but they are and "they" are absolutely impartial, it is not a question of "knowing how to read them", the numbers are there, they are read as they are reported in the annals, there is no right way and a wrong way to read them. As far as I'm concerned, I'm certainly not belittling Valentino's achievements and if you think otherwise, then you haven't understood my point, I hoped it was clear and obvious that, whatever other aspect you want to consider, outside of the "numbers", it's always something extremely personal. These different aspects can be read in one way or another.
Let's get to the personal part.
Do you allow me to understand this from my experience? I hope so, because discussing topics that are not familiar to us is equivalent to talking about hot air. This is true whether you want to believe it or not. This topic is an integral part of my work and I know exactly what I'm talking about.
You're mixing physical skills with mental toughness. They are 2 different things and, even if it may seem strange to you, they are not directly related. I have had to deal with very gifted champions who have not stood up to their commitments and, at the same time, I have had to deal with "old" rascals capable of giving wages to young people even without possessing particular skills.
When you do something that you love, that you like and are passionate about, you always give 100% regardless of your age and previous results, both Vale and Max are the clearest example of this, but in all sports there are elements of gender and they have not changed the performance, but they have changed the approach to the competition, experience leads you to face the competitions in a different way, you act in a targeted way, without "waste", this absolutely does not mean that it changes the " performance" as you wrote, indeed, the performance (in percentage) improves (this is why I wrote that it is not the best to discuss unfamiliar topics, I hope you are not offended, it is not my intention).
Professional athletes have the right mentality to always aim for the best, even if their career has been full of successes, indeed the successes reinforce this aspect and many reach the end of their careers only because their physical skills are declining, certainly not their mental ones.
You write:
"the things that at twenty seem vital to you, so you throw two hearts into it, at 30 they don't stimulate you in the same way, maybe physically you've changed little, but you lose part of that momentum, of that desire to necessarily want to be number 1"
Based on my experience, I tell you that this is not the case. And to think that there are countless examples of this type. The last, in chronological order, is Schumacher. He was No. 1 for a long time, he left, but when he came back, he didn't do it to make up the numbers, inside himself (and he even said it in an interview) he was convinced he could "beat" everyone again Unfortunately, both his technical means and his physical skills no longer allowed him to do so.
I repeat that I didn't write what I wrote based on "hearsay" or "feelings" or because it might be logical to be so, I write it because I saw it and experienced it. I'm not here to "make you understand", like my friend "w il sic." claims to do.
I don't have the arrogance of possessing the absolute truth, which is why I inform you of my experiences and knowledge, to allow you to have a different point of view (oh my captain) with which to evaluate the topic more completely , in the end it will always be up to you to take what good there may be and discard the rest.
Hi Ligera, (you will have to tell me your name..:-)
I almost always find myself in agreement with the things you write, and I congratulate you again, also for the way you do it, as well as for the contents.
In this thing you wrote it almost seems like you forgot to talk about talent, in relation to the longevity of the driver; I noticed that often the most talented drivers have won less in their history than others with less talent (Swantz has not practically never won a title, because the year in which he won his only title the championship was practically already lost, Spencer, Stoner, Saarinen, are riders who have won little compared to their talent). I have always believed that the sport of motorcycling , having practiced it as I did, if it were a primarily mental sport, where the physical mattered less than the psychological aspect. In my opinion there is a relationship between the equation great talent = fewer victories, I would like to know what you think... and after ,since reading you is enjoyable for me, I would like to ask you a couple more questions.
Thanks for the reply.
I will struggle to answer you point by point and given that I agree with some of them, I will only dispute a few things.
“But I also reiterate that, wanting to make a comparison between drivers, the only concrete starting point is the numbers, all the other systems are essential from passion and personal support. I may or may not like the numbers, but they are and "they" are absolutely impartial, it is not a question of "knowing how to read them", the numbers are there, they are read as they are reported in the annals, there is no right way and a wrong way to read them"
Do you think the good Rosberg is a better driver than Schumacher?
They raced with the same car, and the numbers certainly don't prove the Kaiser right...
In his second year at Mercedes, once he got back to grips he should have at least beaten Rorberg with the same car, but that wasn't the case.
As you can see, the numbers must be understood, not taken as they are, otherwise we would have to consider many great drivers of the past to be mediocre but who won relatively little.
Many numbers can be cited, but if not interpreted they would inevitably be fallacious.
"that's why I wrote that it's not the best thing to discuss unfamiliar topics, I hope you're not offended, that's not my intention"
I'm far from being offended by these things... of course, so I hope that you won't be offended either if I tell you that experiencing these things as a coach and experiencing them as a player can be very different, especially if the coach hasn't tried it on his own skin, in due time, what I'm telling you about.
Mine has been a life of sport, like my father's, and at the threshold of 30, with 2 serious knee operations, I'll tell you about experiences that I have lived firsthand and that I have shared with several colleagues who have done more or not my path.
The desire to be number 1 will remain with you even at 30,40,50 and 60 years old, that's not the issue.
Mine doesn't even want to be a fixed rule that says that at 30 you're less strong and successful than at twenty, but it's clear that I haven't been able to express myself...
“You're mixing physical skills with mental toughness. They are 2 different things and, even if it may seem strange to you, they are not directly related. I had to deal with very gifted champions who couldn't stand up to their commitments and, at the same time, I had to deal with "old" scoundrels capable of giving wages to young people even without possessing particular skills".
Obviously I don't mix physical skills and mental strength, and the example you give me has no connection with what I express or attempt to express in my post.
To conclude, if we want to give an idea of the value of Rosberg and Schumacher, we must take into consideration their ENTIRE careers, with the opponents that were there, despite the fact that these two drivers raced for 3 years in the same car and in the same period.
Likewise it makes no sense to take into consideration Stoner's career and only a piece of Vale's.
Let's analyze Casey's career from the beginning, and then that of Rossi, then we take stock.
One last thing which however has little to do with the topic of the post.
How do you explain that Stoner achieved the same results with the 2007 Ducati that he achieved with the 2011 Honda...?
If, as many say, Casey won the world championship "despite" the Ducati, it would have been plausible that Stoner would have made, proportionately, much more with the Honda in 2011 and 2012, why didn't it happen?
Aeneas
Ps
Obviously the post is in response to Ligera's... ;)
Ps2
Damn “H”aber…hehehehe :D
Aeneas
This time I agree with Aeneas
Rossi hasn't done badly in these two years, he's broken all his records!!
in the negative though!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:-)))))))))))))))))))))))
record of falls
record of the largest gap in lap times!!! (I think it reached 4 seconds if I'm not mistaken)
he is not in decline, he remains a record holder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ha ha ha ha this is bad but beautiful!!
it's useless Rossi in ducati literally did c….e!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
in his face and that of burgess!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's actually the opposite:
the duKan in these two years has literally done f... races, DESPITE Rossi!!
Look at Rossi's palmares and look at Dukan's and then we'll talk about it.
But you let me down on one thing without offense and that is, you often say that when Casey started racing in red he already had some titles to his advantage and even more often you compare his entire career and results against Casey but then when makes the only comparison that makes sense is not good.
Meh!
A little more coherence please!
H954RR
You misunderstand, when they say that when Stoner arrived, Vale already had several titles, they want to reiterate the fact that Vale's career had already begun a while ago, the point I'm making above...
I repeat... make yourself comfortable on the sofa, forget that you hate vale and love stoners, and watch the first 4-5 years of vale's career in a detached way... then we'll talk about it again... ;)
Not that he didn't do crazy things afterwards, but in the first few years everything was expected of him... even starting last and finishing ahead...
Aeneas
playing cat and mouse etc
Look, I really hope I get all the races and they don't register me..
PS
Sorry in general for my linguistic errors... I speak 99% of the time in Spanish, and the little Italian I could count on is taking its toll... ;)
Aeneas
why do people speak spanish in lecce??? ahahahahahahahahahahahahah now not only the saints are stolen... but also the dialects!!!!!!! Southern Spain right??
Testoner if you're interested in knowing why I almost only speak Spanish, just ask, why do you have to be the fatman of the situation even when it's not necessary...? ;)
Aeneas
@enea… it was a joke… and you know… if you start acting offended you're really in a bad situation… bye ene'!!
hehe but so you're offending yourself first... hihihi..^^
Let's at least wait for the championship to start to get offended...hahahah :D
Aeneas
Muy bien hombre!! porfin a colleague.. starting from you I write to you in castellano so we don't go to touch the huevos!! ja ja ja ja
Hey and why do you speak Spanish? let's go because I live, ahì.. you?
jejeje no better Italian word… I don't want to explain it twice in two languages… jijiji ^^
I spent 5-6 years in South America, and my wife comes from those parts…
Lately I speak less Italian than Spanish... and the results can be seen... jijiji ;)
Aeneas
where is it that is very great South America.. entonces Latin words.. have that acento has attached you je je
very well in all ways there are many precious things there and women are among them!
I'm launching for Argentina..
Well???? come on I invite you all, turn on your thumbs and let's see how many canaries and how many there are and the others
ha ha ha ha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXjdMESA4w0&feature=em-uploademail
a tak aparler in dialect acse atcapies a host
ihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihihi
To Aeneas:……better that you return to Troy; Valentino is the Great, but Casey is the Alien!!
To Ligea:……I partly agree, the drivers of the 80s and 90s were heroes and spectacular…..but they went, per lap, even 2, 3-4 seconds slower than the current ones on the same tracks……and yes , it's true that technology helps today more than yesterday as does the evolution of chassis and engine components......but go and see Casey's lines and curves again at 260-270 kmh in almost all the GPs where it was possible get them !!!
Stoner, my personal opinion, is the only pilot out of time... there's none for anyone!!
He won a world championship in 2007 with a bike he had never ridden before... with a monstrous engine, yes, but with a ridiculous chassis (which only allowed one and one trajectory!!!)... against a rival at the peak of his career who he had a motorbike that from 2004 to 2012 won, and allowed those who rode it to win, 6 out of 9 world championships!!!!
The numbers, as they say in Naples, were given by Valentino on the Rossa!!!!!!!
And Lorenzo will certainly never get on it...ditto Pedrosa and company!!!
MotoGP has lost its oldest son......and you are still here writing nonsense about who is the strongest, the fastest, about the old days......I am 39 years old and have been passionate about this since the age of 12 sport.
I have never seen anyone like Casey (only Schwantz perhaps had a similar talent)…….let's hope for the young Marquez!!
Anyway, I've always supported the Rossa, so for this year, being Italian and a lover of this extraordinary sport, I'll just say: Forza Ducati, Forza Marquez and Forza Rossi.
Long live MotoGP!!!
I'm so sorry, but I should have quoted your post before sending mine. The one below is in response to your post, hi.
Forgive me for starting the post, but it wasn't easy to understand the part where you disagree with me. If I understood correctly, this comparison, in your opinion, had no reason to exist because Stoner is (or rather, was) clearly better performing than Vale.
I agree with the fact that Stoner has proven to be more skilled than Vale, even if I believe it is impossible (considering that others see it in a diametrically opposite way) to find qualities that can be compared. I am more inclined to say that, whoever is able to argue that Stoner is stronger than Vale or vice versa, she does so using a highly "subjective" and not "objective" evaluation, as a concrete judgment should be.
The only way to evaluate riders using "objective" criteria is to refer to the numbers, as they are displayed in the annals of motorcycling.
I don't agree with the 2007 definition of a "ridiculous chassis". The chassis was still made of tubular trellis, but the concept that led to the GP9 was already present on the GP7. I believe that the Ducati was too "grumpy" in terms of its engine and weight distribution and was not "obliged" to take a single trajectory. The bike was shaking too much, if I remember correctly, this was the main problem (also deriving from the less rigid frame, let's be clear).
I also think that if we now find ourselves with a bike that competes more with the CRTs than with its MotoGP "sisters", we owe it in an important way, also to the Vale-Burgess duo. It is they, in fact, who "convinced" Preziosi (I will never believe it in the world) to completely change the construction principle of the GP11.
X Everyone:
Seen the Panigale in Australia? It's still just testing, but there are 2 little things to underline about the Panigale.
1st little thing: the Panigale is new, it's the first year in which the trellis frame has been abandoned for carbon, not only that, but these 2 days were the only ones in which Checa was able to test, while the others had already shot another 2 days shortly before.
2nd little thing: the Pnigale follows the construction philosophy of the GP11. Vale, on the GP11, was unable to vary the performance, whatever set-up changes he made. Do you remember that the GP11 set a time on Friday afternoon that remained almost unchanged for the whole weekend? This is a sign that the GP11 was insensitive to any modification, at least that was...at the time...
Carlos Checa, in 2 days, without the sufficient confidence that one gives to "one's" project (I write this because Checa said it several times), managed to equal the performance of the most famous 4 cylinders. Furthermore, one of Carlos' first comments on the Panigale was to talk about the Panigale as a motorcycle that is very sensitive to the slightest change in set-up.
After a year, it seems they have solved the problems that Carlos himself had noted in his first private rides with the bike. Did he give the right indications? Did the engineers understand how to proceed with a frame divided into 2 parts and built with carbon? I don't know, I'm fine with both hypotheses, but, unfortunately, they make me think: "what if they had kept the same shape on the GP12 too, what would the bike be like now?"
I know perfectly well that "IFS" and "BUTs" don't change things, but it makes me think about it anyway.