MotoGP Sachsenring: Marquez returns to success by dominating, Rossi extends his lead on Lorenzo in the championship
The reigning Honda champion achieves his twenty-first success in MotoGP, Rossi leads Lorenzo in third
MotoGP 2015 German GP Race – Marc Marquez dominated the MotoGP class German Grand Prix. Once the Honda rider took the lead of the race, he never relinquished it until just before the checkered flag. This is the second victory of the season for the reigning champion after the one in Austin, and the twenty-first in MotoGP. After the controversy at Assen, a victory has arrived that will banish the crisis and will allow him to have a nice holiday.
Dani Pedrosa and Valentino Rossi took the podium, with the latter having to surrender to the Spaniard. From a championship perspective, however, there is good news for the nine-time world champion, who goes on holiday to further extend his lead over Lorenzo, who is fourth today. Ducati "saved" itself with Andrea Iannone fifth, while Andrea Dovizioso did not finish the race due to a fall.
Now in the world championship ranking Valentino Rossi reaches 179 points against Jorge Lorenzo's 166. Andrea Iannone is third with 118 points, with Marc Marquez just four points behind the Ducati rider.
Race report
After having attended the races of the Moto3 and Moto2 classes which saw Danny Kent and Xavier Simeon triumph respectively, the highlight of the day has now arrived, the riders of the MotoGP class are about to leave for the "GoPro MOTORRAD GRAND PRIX DEUTSCHLAND", ninth stage and the halfway point of the 2015 world championship, which sees Valentino Rossi at the top of the world championship with ten points ahead of team-mate Jorge Lorenzo.
Yesterday in the 15-minute "Time Attack" the reigning champion Marc Marquez (Honda) took pole, making his fourth pole start of the season, the twenty-sixth of his career in the Top Class. In the front row with him are his compatriots Dani Pedrosa (Marquez's team-mate) and Jorge Lorenzo, riding the Team Movistar Yamaha.
Andrea Iannone, on a Ducati, will open the second row. In qualifying, the rider from Vasto preceded the Colombian Yonny Hernadez, on the Ducati GP14.2 of Team Pramac and Valentino Rossi. Third row for the brothers Aleix and Pol Espargarò and for Bradley Smith.
After difficult qualifying, Andrea Dovizioso will start from the fourth row, having achieved the eleventh time. Fifth row for Danilo Petrucci, with the second Ducati of Team Pramac, while the San Marino Alex de Angelis got the most out of his Iodaracing ART, moving it to the sixth row. All ready, 30 laps to go for 110.13 km. The traffic lights go out, the fastest at the start is Pedrosa, but at the first corner Lorenzo takes the lead and Marquez also passes Pedrosa. Followed by Andrea Iannone with Ducati and Valentino Rossi with Yamaha.
Rossi attacks and passes Iannone, while Andrea Dovizioso with the second GP15 is eleventh. The first lap ends with Lorenzo ahead of Marquez, Pedrosa, Rossi, Iannone, Hernandez, Smith and Pol Espargarò.
In the first laps Lorenzo maintains first position, while Rossi takes a bad crash in the right bend before the waterfall. Valentino recovers, takes a fast lap, while Hernandez attempts an attack on Iannone. On the fourth lap Rossi passes Pedrosa and Marquez does the same maneuver on Lorenzo.
The Majorcan Yamaha champion tries to catch Marquez, who however seems to be able to get ahead. The pace shown in the warm up by the Spaniard seems to allow him to escape. At this point it is Rossi who puts Lorenzo in his sights and after an unsuccessful attempt, he succeeds in the maneuver. Now Rossi is second and from a championship perspective it is a very positive result for the rider from Pesaro. Pedrosa also passes Lorenzo, if the race ended now Rossi's lead over Lorenzo before the summer break would be 17.
Fall for Dovizioso! Weekend to forget for the Ducati rider from Forlì, who hasn't had a good thing since the Mugello race. At Mugello it was a technical problem that stopped him, in Barcelona he crashed, at Assen another technical problem forced him to take up positions and here he fell again! A setback that will weigh on the Ducati rider's morale.
We have reached the halfway point of the race, Marquez leads by a wide margin over Rossi, who is followed by Pedrosa, while Lorenzo is over a second behind his Honda compatriot. Keeping the Ducati afloat once again is Andrea Iannone, fifth and ahead of Smith, Crutchlow, Hernandez, Pol Espargarò and Danilo Petrucci from Terni.
Attack by Pedrosa who passes Rossi moving into second position. The duel between the Spaniard and the Pesaro native will be very important from a championship perspective, as there are in fact four points at stake, twenty for second place versus sixteen for third.
Last five laps of the race, Marquez is ever closer to his second victory of the year, which would be his twenty-first in MotoGP. Rossi is always fighting to try to snatch second position from Pedrosa, while behind it there is a big battle between Pol Espargarò (eighth), Petrucci, Vinales, Hernandez and Aleix Espargarò.
The final lap begins, Marc Marquez wins at the Sachsenring for the sixth consecutive year, Pedrosa and Rossi on the podium, with Lorenzo fourth and Iannone fifth.
Photos: Alex Farinelli
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Well done, congratulations to the fantastic 4
An extra compliment to Vale for yet another podium and for the championship lead on Jorge.
Without forgetting that, if it weren't for the 36-year-old boy from Tavullia, the results of the Italians in MGP would be of little importance.
Ok Iannone and Dovi but at the top there is always and only the legendary Vale.
With all due respect to those who don't like it ;-))
As expected, Marquez first, Pedrosa second, and in any case an excellent Rossi third, Lorenzo more subdued, so he will have more difficulty in bringing home the championship, even if the next race is favorable and Rossi has been in more difficulty in the past.
More than Marquez, Pedrosa will tip the balance between Lorenzo and Rossi. We know that Marquez is up front and will win other races before the end of the year, but when he does it will be Pedrosa who will determine who will or will not score the most points over his opponent.
Today Rossi gained but not much, if Lorenzo finishes second, Pedrosa third and Rossi fourth in Indianapolis then everything will immediately reopen.
It also depends on luck, for now it hasn't gone that badly for both of them, they have always finished the races, no technical problems with the bike, only with the helmet for Jorge and a bronchitis, Rossi must continue like this and not make any mistakes. Today he took a big risk at the start of the race.
I hope that both Lorenzo and Rossi are lucky until the end of the season and that everything is determined simply by their skill and consistency.
Marquez could get back into the fight only if the others had problems, or if he was shamelessly favored with the choice of tyres, like the first 10-12 races of last season, in which out of at least 11 he was given tires to make the most of the its characteristics.
Stop it? stop it?? you can't be read anymore... every time you say this thing about tires... you always have to say it in every article. Many have already told you that you are wrong. The results never depend only on the tyres. It's not the tire that makes the victory. There is the rider, the team, the setup, the bike and the tyre. Honda is strong now because of the old chassis, not better tires for it.
And please don't dare to reply to me.. I don't even want to read your comment
Listen Durim if you don't like what I write it's your business... don't read me and don't bother me, I say what I think, you believe what you like...
I love motor sports, but when I observe dynamics for years then I also smell something burning, I don't question the abilities of the drivers, they are all champions but for me the game isn't all clean, on the contrary.
It's a business like F1, even MotoGP suffers from this dynamic and has become increasingly dirtier, especially with single tyres.
If you want to continue with slices of salami on your eyes, go ahead, I don't like them...
Strange that the chassis suddenly appeared in Assen and things suddenly changed there. It's also strange that Pedrosa uses the 2015 bike and it's still very strong, so it's not the chassis and it's not even the engine, given that they changed the exhaust and electronics but the engine is still the same, and these are small things that they could have done at the beginning of the year if they were fundamental.
Damn Yamaha has suddenly improved 5-10-15-20 seconds in GP for one or 2 seasons now and Honda has become a wreck in the first part of the season, just as the riders aren't duds who suddenly they forget how to go fast.
The tires are changing the balance, and only because this year there is a crazy development for the last year that we see upheavals otherwise we would have witnessed what has happened in the last 2 years.
F1 is the same thing, just look at what Mercedes is doing now... Clearly it's not just the tires but also the regulations which when Redbull won and several years earlier Ferrari were changed to remove "irregularities" while now that Mercedes is winning and dominating the regulations they are very stable ;) in short, a nice joke, right?
Look, in F1 the regulations were drawn up by the three manufacturers (Renault, Mercedes and Ferrari) together...if the Germans are ahead it's only because they work better.
Similarly in MotoGP, tires are developed without helping anyone, so it is logical that the team, bike or rider who adapts best benefits. But precisely because there are interests at stake, such obvious conspiracies or favoritism, we cannot talk.
...just to show you, I'll go back to your example: the regulations in F1 changed ALSO TO HELP FERRARI, and in general THEY WERE AGAINST those who dominated in those years:
1994 abolition of active suspensions: against Williams
1995 transition from 3500 to 3000 cc: against Renault, then Williams and Benetton
1998 narrow tracks and grooved tyres: against Williams
2000 beryllium abolition: against Mercedes, then McLaren
2002 change of scores: against Ferrari
2005 abolition of tire changes: against Ferrari
2006 reintroduction of tire changes: against Renault and McLaren (pro Ferrari)
2009 return to slicks and aerodynamic limitations: against Ferrari and McLaren
2013-14 ban on blown exhausts and return to turbos: against RedBull
As you can see, favoritism is only in your head, bye!
F1 is full of mafias, and the English and Italians never told each other, in any case beryllium was not abolished to attack Mercedes, many used it, but berylium is like asbestos or cobalt , it'll kill you, understand?!
They didn't remove it to disadvantage anyone but because it is very dangerous for those who work there...
It's clear that when Ferrari won with Schumacher it was the favourite, like when it won with Beneton or when Renault won with Villneuve, even Redbull, but know that Renault preferred to stay away from these hybrid engines because they aren't exactly geniuses hybrid as well as Ferrari, it is clear that this technology would have benefited Mercedes, as the period of the blocked V8s made Renault catch up and the regulations all based on aerodynamics led them to dominate, while Ferrari and Mercedes were the ones struggling.
Ferrari thought it could gain a little more control over Renault knowing that the engine would have to become more of a protagonist again, but in reality these regulations are made to give Mercedes that advantage that in all other ways it had not managed to gain...
These are periods decided upon at the table.
F1 has been like this for more than 10 years, and only sporadically are there any disruptions.
MotoGP has become like this in recent years, they are not conspiracies, they are world championships decided practically by design.
We'll see if this was written at all like 2009/2010 for Yamaha, or 2011, 2014 for Honda.
For now this could be a year like 2014 for Honda, or if these compounds that have returned to the Honda/Marquez specifications from Assen will continue over time or have just been a thing for these 2 GPs.
In 2012 it was the same thing but with the roles reversed. Stoner continued to dominate as in 2011 until they forced him to use the other tires made for Yamaha/Lorenzo. The same for Jorge, in 2013 they changed his parameters during the World Championship race, and by getting injured he wasted the last chances he had. Last year the compounds were clearly oriented towards Marquez/Honda, only a blind or naive person nowadays doesn't realize that you can't win the first 12 races of the year in a normal season, without upheavals in the regulations...
Just as it is not possible for a bike that had 6 to 10 seconds ahead of its opponent the season before, suddenly either goes a little better, or becomes 5-15 seconds slower than itself per GP, while the opponents close the gap of even 10 15 seconds and they add another 5 or 6 miraculously, once again without upheavals...
I'm not a die-hard Stoner fan, if I have to cheer for someone I'll cheer for Rossi, but Christ listen to his words, if someone so strong and so fast, who like Rossi and Lorenzo and Pedrosa fought for world championships and won so many races, so many fast laps and poles, tells you that he doesn't like the environment, that he doesn't like racing in the conditions they put you in, even if they pay you millions, why has someone like him who likes motorbikes and competitions retired?
He certainly doesn't spill the beans about everything, because he knows well what it means to question his 2007 world championship with Bridgestone and the 2011 one, but Christ, if he still had doubts in 2012, his thoughts cleared up when they he was injured in an attempt to win a world championship that he could no longer win because the parameters in play changed, like Lorenzo in 2013...
There are those who are into this dirty game like Rossi who now takes it philosophically, Lorenzo a little less since he raises his voice every time the tires change, and Marquez either hasn't gotten there yet, or thinks he can winning even when he lacks the parameters under his wheels, and in fact he lies down, it went well for him that he hasn't been seriously hurt yet.
I think Pedrosa has now surrendered to the evidence that he played his cards in 2006, and wasn't even able to play in 2011.
If you didn't understand in Austin and here at the Sachenring for Honda and on the other tracks for Yamaha, what the difference is between this year and last year, and where the differences are which is not in the bikes but in the tires continue to believe that everything is clean.
It's clear that there are a lot of parameters and settings that can affect performance.
But in your opinion, can a team that wins 11 out of 12 races in which everything goes well in this world be luck? Suddenly that same team becomes a team that takes home only 2 races out of 9, and that is unable to make the bike that dominated the year before go except on circuits where there is a technical advantage of the bike and not of the tyres... and in any case in Austin and at the Sachenring they had the tires that Marquez likes, elsewhere they didn't, or rather the others had tires that they liked better...
If everything is clean for you... it's not just the track, the rider, and the bike... whether a circuit is won or lost...
By making tires for one or the other bike they could even get Ducati to win... which actually happened in 2007 when the Bridgestones were mainly developed for that bike, while Michelin had already been in crisis since 2006 and in 2005 they were the first signs began that he was missing the train.
You are free to think as you like: personally I believe that your hypotheses are absurd and only the result of "conspiracy" delusions... which is very common in Italy.
Beryllium, for example, is harmful, but only during the processing phase! Its abolition was supported by those (Ferrari) who were unable to use this technology: and it is curious how you DO NOT explain to me the other abolition technologies that favored Ferrari!!!
If you want I'll give you more:
1982/3 abolition of miniskirts: pro Ferrari
1986 abolition of refueling: against McLaren
1994 reintroduction of supplies: against Williams Renault
I only ask you not to act as if you are enlightened compared to those who don't think like you: you may think that he is a simpleton, and that you are much more skilled and capable of seeing things that people like me don't understand... similarly I believe that your theories ( including MotoGP) are the ramblings of a person who believes he is smarter than others... wrongly.
The World Cup is an Italian thought... like football betting. F1 and MotoGP are not football...in my opinion, and the regulations always penalize those who are dominating...that's all.
Luca, if you want evidence on F1, look at the constructors' championship rankings from the '60s to today and then tell me if there isn't something that stinks of things decided on the table with different periods of domination of one over the others...
It's obvious that Mercedes will now dominate given that they are the ones who have won the least... but these are all suppositions... there's no conspiracy in my opinion, it's simply decided like this. Rarely do you steal the World Cup from one year to the next, you often go from the dominance of one to the dominance of another like this from one day to the next...
Ronnie:
1. Ferrari believed it was winning with hybrid engines. Already accepted the challenge, but lost.
2. The statics of the 60s? I know them by heart: what would be suspicious in modern statistics, if compared to those of those years??
There was less money and there were no manufacturers: only Ferrari and Cosworth….or before that BRM Climax and Repco. In short, little stuff, and the English argued with the Italians like now...
results from the 60s not the 60s.
From '60 to today, how have engine manufacturers followed one another in the world championship, winning the world championship... in a cyclical way...
F1 is probably the most fake motor sport in the world, the most corrupt and the dirtiest, and has been increasingly so for decades, becoming more and more of a show, and a succession of set world championships.
Everyone is free to believe what they want, but those who follow them for many years, or many who follow them for many years, realize the filth that goes around and within that world, as do those who work there and abandon it...
MotoGP is aping those dynamics more and more.
Just look at what they've done with tires over the years, from Bridgesotone to Pirelli, with Pirelli it was extreme, you really have to close your eyes and plug your ears not to notice, it's scandalous...
I think that the rear or the front or both at Assen were different on the edge compared to the 4 races won by Lorenzo. I think Jorge immediately complained that the compound on the edge wasn't the same.
Certainly the frame, the exhausts, the new Honda electronics have brought something, but they don't transform a bike that loses 8 or 9 seconds in a GP into a winner, over the course of 2 GPs.
If not, last year it wouldn't have taken Yamaha 13 races to win the first, right?
In my opinion, if Rossi got a pole in the dry and went strong straight away on a circuit, something has changed after 4 victories for Lorenzo, just as it is strange for Lorenzo to win 4 races in a row after a less than perfect start.
Even for Marquez, who had an unstable bike, he managed on that last lap to do a lap 4 tenths faster just when Rossi wasn't stopped but was pulling, while Jorge dreamed of those times. While at Jerez Le Mans and also at Mugello it was the others who forgot Jorge's pace in the race. Likewise in Austin it was Marquez who made the bad and bad weather, and in Argentina he was red, with that ExtraDura that only he exploited.
The Hard was made for the Official Hondas in that GP and for Marquez the Extra Hard was made for the Official Yamahas and for Rossi.
In my opinion they can hamper the riders or the bikes and favor one riding style over another, even if Bridgestone's objective in my opinion remains, to go as fast as possible with the bike and the fastest rider on that given circuit, giving tires that do not fall apart and that do not make any motorcycle manufacturer look bad and consequently show that Bridgestones are good on all motorcycles, so as to have a good image of wear resistance and performance.
So it is possible that in the circuits where disasters have occurred in the past, from year to year they may perhaps bring safer compounds for everyone and focus less on the single driver's performance on the flying lap and in the race.
For me the fact remains that the riders say what they prefer, and Bridgestone and the Teams know what the riders prefer, what one prefers and what another prefers, that's for sure, there's no doubt about it!
Then whether or not they exploit these aspects to manipulate results.
I think it can happen, even if it is impossible to predict the outcome of a race with certainty.
But let's say that thinking in terms of stable weather conditions can favor a motorbike or a rider with a certain tyre.
Also because if you immediately get the feeling from the first laps, then you fine-tune the bike and have many fewer problems to solve.
I agree that there are many parameters and rain would be enough to make any program go haywire. But I believe that as flexible as these bikes are, full of adjustments, there are and remain technical limits of each of them, which can be adjusted, just as the styles of the riders can be varied to the extent possible, but that somewhere you can't do anything if your riding style or motorbike functioning are neutered.
Yamaha and Honda have different peculiarities, although they improve everywhere they are different in engine power and weight distribution. They often ride differently, and have different riders, so in my opinion they can do something in favor of one or the other bike and one or the other rider.
Ronnie, it is clear to the whole world that Honda has acted on the chassis and electronics to return to being competitive and Dani uses the same chassis as Marquez which would then be the 2014 one with the new swingarm and other 2015 details. Point.
The tires have always played a fundamental role and it will probably be the same this year but that's another matter...the issue was that the behavior of the 2015 Honda, according to the riders, was too grumpy and unpredictable, it didn't allow them to push without errors... acting on the chassis and electronics this problem was solved.
I repeat that the issue of tires has always been the same for years (see Stoner and his statements) but in the case of Honda's newfound competitiveness they have nothing to do with it..
Eh Stonami, I have some doubts, unfortunately a very competitive Pedrosa was missing to have more terms of comparison.
Pedrosa uses a different frame from Marquez, they are always different and they are not 2014 frames, but different 2015 frames, but it is not only thanks to the frame that they have changed competitiveness overnight.
The chassis certainly helped, as did the electronics and exhausts, but before they lost a lot from Yamaha, and in some GPs they went slower than last year, but in others they were still faster. So the chassis was a problem for him up to a certain point.
So from one year to the next the performance is lacking compared to Yamaha which seems to have improved a lot. A lot of it isn't attributable to the bike, just as last year it wasn't attributable to Hona. This Yamaha is very similar to last season's. I remain of the opinion that a lot is attributable to the tires that were developed since it is Bridgestone's last year, this year so far it would seem at least 6 circuits to 2 for Yamaha while in 1 they were closer.
They mainly favored Yamaha with the riding style of Lorenzo and Rossi by the majority.
They brought more choices, but where they gave strong developments, Rossi and Lorenzo made the difference, more in favor of one or the other.
Last year they were more in favor of Marquez and his riding style and of Honda, also seeing what Pedrosa managed to do.
This year from Yamaha, so far.
We'll see in the second part of the season, but it seemed that last year there were no more Yamaha and Honda circuits, Marquez was strong everywhere, at least as fast as Yamaha, even on circuits where they had always struggled.
This year, miraculously, Honda has returned to being a normal bike, in fact it has gotten worse, and even on the circuits where it has always been strong it is having a much harder time bringing home the result.
Pedrosa did a race like we saw years ago, winning on the Yamahas, Marquez on the other hand was stratospheric, things that Pedrosa rarely does with such superiority even here at the Sachenring, a sign that something has changed and I don't think it's just the chassis, the electronics and the unloaded, given that in Assen Marquez struggled a lot to stay with Rossi, here he gave him half a second per lap, in short, a big difference.
But how is the bike not the same?
According to Nakamoto's statements that bcs made me read, after the Valencia tests he already declared that Yamaha was superior and they had "engine" problems. In Valencia, according to Nakamoto, they were already inferior to Yamaha.
I doubt that was the case, given that for the tests in Sepang and then in Qatar up until race day they were in front. Then in the race Yamaha came out with times they had never done before, while the Hondas struggled.
This year, like last year, like other years, strange things have happened, and I believe little in the official versions.
Let's take the Argentine, only Rossi made the most of the extra hard tyre, in the 4 GPs won by Lorenzo at least 3 only he made the most of the tyres.
The case of Austin 2014 and Austin 2015 is emblematic in my opinion, it shows how much things have changed between these 2 seasons. In theory Marquez should have had the bike he had before Assen, right???
Last year in 2014 the Austin race was a disaster for the Yamahas, at the finish line Rossi paid 45 seconds and Lorenzo 49 seconds. Lorenzo lost 23 seconds due to a mistake, so let's say he would have finished with around 26 seconds, Rossi destroyed the tyres.
In 2013 Marquez won with a time of 43'42.123 (without slowing down at the end of the race)
In 2013 Lorenzo finished in around 43'45.5 seconds.
In 2013 Rossi finished in around 43'58.7 seconds
In 2014 Marquez won with a time of 43'33.430 (slowing down by 4 seconds in the final part of the race)
In 2014 Lorenzo finished in around 44'22.5, which would be around 23 minutes if 44 seconds of the exit were removed.
In 2014 Rossi finished in around 44'19 seconds
In 2015 Marquez won with a time of 43'47.150 (slowing down by 1.5 seconds in the final part of the race)
In 2015 Rossi finished in around 43'50'3
In 2015 Lorenzo finished in around 43'53.8
Why was Yamaha going stronger in 2013 than in 2014, what has changed? The motorbike? Tires?
Why do the Austin tires favor the Hondas, then suddenly last year they fall apart for Yamaha and this year they give less performing tires, safer over distances but the one who benefits the most is Yamaha who gains in an astonishing way compared to to last season?
It's true that from year to year, conditions change, the circuit should get worse over the years, because cars run there.
But from the first to the second year Marquez improved a lot, this year he slowed down, even Lorenzo's Yamaha went slower than in 2013, but Christ, from one season to the next it's possible that performances could change by 20, 30 or 40 seconds. , doesn't it stink to you at all?
Why does the Honda go faster there anyway, wasn't it the unstable chassis, too much power, uncontrollable when braking? It wasn't always the same bike as the other GPs. (for me they are never the same... but why do they adapt well to the tyres, despite the fact that they have clipped their wings in recent years? Above all, to avoid figures like last season, in which Honda is hugely favoured, but Yamaha is he such a loser?)
Ronnie...don't be long...so you're telling me that in your opinion since Assen the tire manufacturer has worked on the product to make Honda competitive again?
I think that the rear or the front or both at Assen were different on the edge compared to the 4 races won by Lorenzo. I think Jorge immediately complained that the compound on the edge wasn't the same.
Certainly the frame, the exhausts, the new Honda electronics have brought something, but they don't transform a bike that loses 8 or 9 seconds in a GP into a winner, over the course of 2 GPs.
If not, last year it wouldn't have taken Yamaha 13 races to win the first, right?
In my opinion, if Rossi got a pole in the dry and went strong straight away on a circuit, something has changed after 4 victories for Lorenzo, just as it is strange for Lorenzo to win 4 races in a row after a less than perfect start.
Even for Marquez, who had an unstable bike, he managed on that last lap to do a lap 4 tenths faster just when Rossi wasn't stopped but was pulling, while Jorge dreamed of those times. While at Jerez Le Mans and also at Mugello it was the others who forgot Jorge's pace in the race. Likewise in Austin it was Marquez who made the bad and bad weather, and in Argentina he was red, with that ExtraDura that only he exploited.
The Hard was made for the Official Hondas in that GP and for Marquez the Extra Hard was made for the Official Yamahas and for Rossi.
In my opinion they can hamper the riders or the bikes and favor one riding style over another, even if Bridgestone's objective in my opinion remains, to go as fast as possible with the bike and the fastest rider on that given circuit, giving tires that do not fall apart and that do not make any motorcycle manufacturer look bad and consequently show that Bridgestones are good on all motorcycles, so as to have a good image of wear resistance and performance.
So it is possible that in the circuits where disasters have occurred in the past, from year to year they may perhaps bring safer compounds for everyone and focus less on the single driver's performance on the flying lap and in the race.
For me the fact remains that the riders say what they prefer, and Bridgestone and the Teams know what the riders prefer, what one prefers and what another prefers, that's for sure, there's no doubt about it!
Then whether or not they exploit these aspects to manipulate results.
I think it can happen, even if it is impossible to predict the outcome of a race with certainty.
But let's say that thinking in terms of stable weather conditions can favor a motorbike or a rider with a certain tyre.
Also because if you immediately get the feeling from the first laps, then you fine-tune the bike and have many fewer problems to solve.
I agree that there are many parameters and rain would be enough to make any program go haywire. But I believe that as flexible as these bikes are, full of adjustments, there are and remain technical limits of each of them, which can be adjusted, just as the styles of the riders can be varied to the extent possible, but that somewhere you can't do anything if your riding style or motorbike functioning are neutered.
Yamaha and Honda have different peculiarities, although they improve everywhere they are different in engine power and weight distribution. They often ride differently, and have different riders, so in my opinion they can do something in favor of one or the other bike and one or the other rider.
Haha Luca I don't live in Italy and I haven't supported Ferrari since the late '80s and early '90s.
I try to be objective in what I say, it's clear that there are periods in which they favored everyone in turn. And as I said, the English and Italians didn't tell each other, they both played dirty and started mafias.
I'm not for conspiracy, when it's done in broad daylight it's not a conspiracy, damn. The whole world is a country and where the money turns, commercial interests turn. They are not competitions with 1000 different manufacturers, they are worlds that are increasingly closed and more oriented in F1 to 3 manufacturers, and in MotoGP they went towards 2 manufacturers, now they have reopened things a bit with the regulations but there are always 2 manufacturers competing , and as long as they don't decide to overturn the regulations to give Suzuki and Ducati a chance - mind you, a chance, not a certainty - nothing will happen.
The cleanest world championships of the last 10 years were probably the cleanest 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 from a tire point of view.
In those years there was no single tire, and Bridgestone conquered the market through investments, but what lies beneath is another matter. However, those were certainly not world championships decided on the table between the motorcycle manufacturers, but the tires played an important role in success or defeat. Bridgestone made better tires and in 2006 they didn't win due to the accident between Gibernau and Capirossi. Change of rules for the 800cc and Brdigestone who takes a further step, and Stoner who manages to ride the Ducati hard and they win. 2008 change of regulations to the detriment of Ducati, tires which are also given to Rossi first and then Pedrosa, and world championship won.
2009-2010 tires made mainly for Yamaha: Rossi and Lorenzo compete for the world championship. 2011 Tires made mainly for Honda, Stoner and Pedrosa compete for the world championship, but Pedrosa is thrown out and gets injured.
2012 Tires made for half the season for Stoner and for half the season for Lorenzo.
2013 less than half the season for Lorenzo and then more and more for Marquez, 2014 for Honda/Maruqez and 2015 in which almost half the season favored Yamaha, we'll see how it continues.
For me these are not conspiracies, technical decisions taken to put on a show, create uncertainty, show that one is strong for half the season then there are the recoveries. In MotoGP things change more often than in other sports like F1.
In F1 Mercedes has been dominating for 2 years now, in MotoGP everything can change in half a season, if it gives me a lot, there is something underneath and it's not how the teams or the driver work that makes the difference in my opinion.
Everyone is free to believe what they want, but in my opinion commercial interests prevail over the sporting spirit, it's a bigger world than the drivers, and the races that take place on Sunday, there are millions and millions of sponsorships behind them but above all billions in interests sales and damn it's clean when there are billionaire interests...
Ronnie
Regarding the F1 regulations, I see that you don't deny what I write, including beryllium, so I don't see your arguments in support of what you say. And if Mercedes has dominated for two years, it is due to skill, nothing else...
As far as MotoGP is concerned, the same thing applies: has Bridgestone also given tires to Yamaha and Honda?
I don't think it was any particular favoritism or steering of the world championship towards one house or the other... it's obvious that Bridgestone also wanted to have the Japanese giants on its side... but what are we talking about?
Bear in mind that we had just switched to the 800 displacement, a regulation that penalized Honda and Yamaha... as I told you: the regulation changes favor those with a technical advantage. And this applies to everyone.
I understand that you think you are objective, but in my opinion you are not. However, you are free to think as you wish, but allow me two considerations:
1. Argue your theories better and explain in what TERMS a championship is already directed towards one house or another. Supporting a thesis without arguments as you have done (F1 and MotoGP) boils down to parroting your thesis... which amounts to accurate sterility.
2. If you really think this way, I don't understand why you continue to follow a selling sport...
If you then argue that the regulatory changes are made to allow the chasing manufacturers to catch up and in general to reshuffle the cards to the advantage of the show... well this is the discovery of hot water!
Hello!
Luca I don't understand what I have to argue...
These are old articles that talk about health problems and how they didn't care to win... and then it's all clean, right?
3w.f1web.it/2013/10/24/elio-berillio-e-uranio-impoverito-viaggio-tra-gli-elementi-proibiti-della-formula-1/
archiviostorico.corriere.it/1998/dicembre/20/Ennesima_guerra_Formula_Per_cstruire_co_0_98122012861.shtml
they may or may not be battles to take away advantages from the competition, of course, like all the regulatory changes or clarifications to ban aerodynamic gadgets for Redbull..
It's a no-holds-barred war, which is precisely why F1 is dirty... but is everything OK for you?
I repeat, look at the manufacturer rankings from the 60s to today, it makes you understand well how engine manufacturers think...
Ronnie
Arguing means giving credence to your thesis:
1. for example, using the term devilry in itself implies a technical-sporting fraud which should be explained in detail (the blown exhausts were legal).
2. unfortunately I don't see the link for beryllium, what do you want to tell me? Was it just a health issue? But how could beryllium (not in the processed state) be harmful?
3. you're talking about sports fraud: very true, like McLaren over Ferrari in 2007....but then how on earth is it possible that the championships are decided a priori, if the projects are then stolen???
4. I have been following these sports for years and the idea of a global plan has always seemed unrealistic and above all unachievable to me...a bit like the theory that it was the Americans themselves who brought down the Twin Tiwers.
5. in the sixties the dynamics, in my opinion, were similar to those today and I don't see anything controlled about it.
I conclude with a small historical example: in 1967 we returned to 3.500 cc engines after years with 1.500 cc, and Ferrari was very happy about this, while the Climax practically disappeared. The Italians thought they would be victorious again in just a few years, but instead the Ford Cosworth arrived and they had to wait until 1975...go ahead and trust the regulatory favoritism!!!
Good evening
Erratum
it was the year 1966. And the situation Ferrari found itself in was similar to the one it finds itself in now…
you have to put www. where it says 3w and https/ where there is nothing maybe that's why they don't work.
I had to remove them otherwise the comment will go into moderation.
In any case they explain in broad terms what has or has not been banned and why and clearly there is also the argument that it was convenient for some to make them disappear. But if something is harmful to your health you are right regardless, also because a few years earlier beryllium had been banned from braking systems and they reintroduced it into the engine...
Meclaren also had something else I seem to remember either auxiliary tanks, hidden or something similar to an itercooler, but on the air intake.
The blown exhausts were not irregular regardless, but they prohibited them, like the flexible wings. All rules to cripple Redbull, right?
First the Ferraris won and they crippled the engine, they changed wings, tires and displacements and blocked developments, then Redbull won and they clipped the wings of aerodynamics, now Mercedes wins and everything is so clipped that the others can't catch up.
If it's not a clear decision for you, this world championship in which they can't intervene on the power unit at all, with increasingly restrictive rules on the replacement of parts...
For me they should unlock developments, perhaps forcing whoever brings a new power unit to start from the back of the grid. Or to be able to use it only if the power units run out so as to give 2 penalties from the back of the grid in 2 GPs.
But the way the regulations are now, the others will quickly get fed up, because it is not possible to close the gap on Mercedes.
The constructors' world championship is decided by table, the drivers' world championship is not, if you have teammates or brand that are up to it. But you can't tell me that it doesn't stink to you at all, if you look at the manufacturers' championship. From '60 to today there is a recurring cyclical nature in the periods of dominance of engine manufacturers.
F1 is dirty, they have also done things with ballast in the past, in addition to the things already mentioned, in addition to prohibited devices and irregular tests. Come on, it's well known that F1 is a rotten sport, if you're lucky ask the engineers who worked on it, and who have left... It's not always for the best technology, but for clever things to the limit or beyond the regulations, and no one is innocent let's be clear.
Ronnie
Sorry, but you are truly uninformed: there weren't even auxiliary tanks on the McLaren to pay for, beryl wasn't harmful in competitions, and many other things you said are historically inaccurate or completely wrong...
Sorry, I can't talk to you, you keep repeating about intrigues and dirt, without justifying your accusations, or motivating them with inaccurate arguments... or even false ones.
….Have a good evening
The first half of the championship was over and no one would have bet a single euro on Rossi.
Marc is definitely one to keep an eye on for the championship.
It makes me laugh now to think of "some" who after Austin compared Rossi and Dovizioso... with the Dovi who should have beaten Rossi haha Iannone is playing it down a bit.
It won't be easy for Rossi to win the championship, but just thinking that he could fight for the title seemed like a dream 2-3 years ago. But it's there!!
He is one of the three best riders in the world...and he was three years ago too. At the time the bike was missing... at least this was clearly demonstrated: Ducati, in its third year without reds and with Audi investments, is still far away and the podiums at the beginning of the season are (perhaps) the result more of the regulatory concessions granted, rather than of a real technical breakthrough…
The Ducatis have disappointed here, 3 years ago with this bike, these new tyres, they would have perhaps finished third, 3 years ago...
Now the bike will be new, and it's the first time it has run on many circuits, but here they really took too much, 20 seconds is a long time in 30 laps and Marquez slowed down at the end, it wasn't a very tight race from the first to the last lap, in fact the Hondas started more slowly.
It seems that when they are in difficulty, both Honda and Yamaha prefer to hit the ground running and spend all or a lot in the first half of the race, while when they are in a good situation they go out over the distance.
From the time of testing it seemed strange to me to see how the Honda was the balanced one here, the more it lost traction with the rear wearing, the more it gained at the front. That is, it lost in the sectors where traction is needed but was faster or more balanced where braking and mileage were needed.
In short, at the beginning the bike is heavier with more fuel, but at the rear the tire is new. The further the race progresses, the later you can brake and enter corners hard, but you lose traction.
From Pedrosa's words it seems that the Yamahas had or maintained better traction in some points, but the Honda here, as seen in Assen on the last lap, seem to have made up ground in braking.
The Hondas but especially Marquez were unstoppable today.
Rossi made his move by extending his lead on Lorenzo in the championship, even if only slightly, but 3 points are always important.
In Indianapolis, in my opinion, it will be a nice tussle between the 3 with Pedrosa on the side.
I don't remember who said that within a couple of races Dovizioso would overtake Rossi in the championship, well he was lucky since he can't even see the finish line anymore ahahahaah
What a Championship!!! And what phenomena there are on the track!!!
I don't remember how long it's been since there was such a good World Cup.
The race went as seen in the previous rounds.
Marc in front with a pace that was impossible for the others and then Pedrosa Rossi and Jorge.
Iannone was very good in this first part of the championship. He risked much less, in short he has matured compared to previous years.
Dovi, poor guy... For some races, everything has happened to him... First the technical problems, now a small mistake. Sin.
The debut of the GP15, however, remains positive.
Smith also impressed me in this first part of the season. He's certainly not a phenomenon, but he hasn't done too badly.
Cal so-so.
Suzuki well and in the team they have taken a great handle that in the next few years important things will be played out (hoping that it is in Suzuki that he will mature properly).
Much work remains to be done, but it was known. And frankly I expected other (more negative) results. And instead, considering the bikes on the track, I would say that they can be moderately satisfied (but not too much, the road is very long).
The usual ones always disappoint me. But I hope for them in other destinations in 2016 and in a recovery in the second part of the season.
The 4 in front are impressive, my goodness, what phenomena!!!
Thank you Champions!!!
Little note for Ronnie:
Pedrosa has NEVER used the 2015 chassis, but in the race he has always used the 2014 (confirmed during the Sky journalist's interview after qualifying). The 2015 chassis was discarded in tests in favor of the old chassis.
And in my opinion Honda's shortcomings in this first part of the season are ALSO due (also eh!, let's not go around) to the absence of the good Pedrosa.
The frame that Marc uses is not exactly the old one. The new engine has different attachments and behaves differently.
In short, the chassis is not the old one, but is a new chassis that goes in the direction of behavior of 2014.
I don't know if I was very clear in this turn of phrase, but I hope so.
Then little note for Durim:
Ronnie is free to write what he thinks and what he wants. If you don't want to read it or what he writes bothers you, just ignore it.
But he MUST be free to write whatever he wants.
It's his point of view (some points I agree with, others I don't, like when he writes about the tire revolution this year, when in reality the real revolution happened last year... Jorge's statements).
Everyone is free to write as they think and if the user is not to their liking, they are not considered.
Seeing what they sometimes do to the chassis from one GP to another it is difficult to say what 2014 and 2015 are, however I imagine that from year to year, if the engine mounts change, one can already say that the chassis are different, especially if more of the connections varies the position of the engine.
Valentino said, with us we can see when a chassis changes "unfortunately", while he was more skeptical to see any differences on those of Honda.
However, all the Ducati manufacturers, including Ducati, make welds appear here and there, and it is unclear whether to actually join several different parts or to quickly stiffen stressed areas or change the torsion parameters of the bike. So there are frames that change quite a bit in behavior. Although I don't understand how they can be sure of the perfect functioning of the frame when they start doing welding which are delicate interventions especially on light alloy frames.
I wrote a little above about the 2014 chassis if you read carefully.
The frame is new (and I'm not arguing about this, in fact, I wrote it before you), but it replicates the behavior of the 2014 one.
This is because there are different attacks and the 2014 could not be mounted.
But when you write that Pedrosa uses the 2015 you want to convey that that chassis was the one that was changed to Marc.
But now you've changed :).
Pedrosa declared (himself) that he didn't use the 2015 chassis except in tests (discarded) and that he chose the "modified 2014" line.
Go and read an article from a few years ago where the km traveled by the testers in Japan were written against the officials and then you will understand :).
Note to bcs
I perfectly agree with you on freedom of expression, but certain theories should be better argued (like the history of F1 regulations) otherwise we are no longer talking about freedom of expression but about pointless attacks.
And in this case Durim's reaction is on the same level as what he wants to contest.
Hello!
I share!
@Ligera
Share what?
On freedom of opinion?
Right
On the race of Valentino, leader of the World Championship at +13 on his direct pursuer?
Right
On attacking Vale fans a priori, why can't you say anything more about Vale considering that Marc won, Jorge made people laugh and Vale came third with cunning?
Mistaken.
What happened to your 4 friends?
Am I in intensive care for the psychological defeat?
Be consistent with yourself, publish a nice post like… W Everyone except Vale.
There are only five of you but we would appreciate your honesty.
So you only make yourselves ridiculous, unsportsmanlike and envious (not to mention the fat guy who sits on the stomach of the winners)…
Lyon66
Sorry, allow me to correct you: ligera shared a post of mine in which I defend Durim from the criticism (by bcs) of denying freedom of expression, having Durim asked Ronnie to shut up and stop with his pro-oa conspiracy theories unfavorable to Rossi, Yamaha etc....
I don't know Ligera's orientation, but on this occasion his intervention was certainly not against Rossi.
I hope I have explained myself decently... if I misunderstood please correct me.
Hello!
Notice who is looking for whom.
Secondly, I reiterate what I wrote to you in the article about the previous competition.
I don't have the pleasure of arguing with you and I don't want to. But I'm pleased with your change of behavior, but honestly you showed the truth and it was enough for me to understand many things.
I agree when you write to argue better, but Ronnie has been writing his theories for years (which may or may not be shared) and frankly he is free to write them.
Which can then lead to the usual back and forth between users.
Frankly, I find it much worse for those who insult outright without having a clear idea of "who writes what" and what they wrote.
To then continue along this line for months because he resented the very thin figure he brought home.
Only to then complain if you respond in kind using the same coin.
But I repeat, I don't want to argue with you, even though I am pleased to note that you have changed your ways.
If you maintain these tones I will begin to reevaluate you and consider you (as a user, of course) in a different way.
Hello
Bcs
…I thank you for the insults and contempt you harbor and covertly show towards me. Nowadays, at least inappropriate.
However, I would like to point out that I too am free to express my thoughts, so you don't see what you have to complain about...
I don't care what you think, I just think Durim's argument is not inappropriate and I defend it... especially from those who place themselves above the parties. If Ronnie argued his bizarre theories, I would be happy to change my mind, but as you will also read in discussions with me, he cites historically incorrect events...
I'm going on too long, I don't like arguing with you either, congratulations again for the tone, and for the attacks that at least this time you could have avoided.
I go back to arguing with Ronnie, I have more fun, at least he doesn't accuse those who dispute his thoughts. HI
Luca
Come on, it's obvious that you want to cause controversy even "in this round".
Where did I insult you? Nowhere.
I don't despise you, you misunderstood.
And where have I “limited” your freedom of expression?
Nowhere, I simply wrote that given your behavior in the past I don't want to argue with you (but I also complimented you on your different behavior).
You write: “I don't care what you think”, but every time you prove the opposite.
If I'm not interested in a person I don't consider them (like I do with you. Then obviously if you answer me I'll reply).
I see you're trying to pass mine off as an attack on Durim, but you're wrong here too. It wasn't an attack.
Everyone is free to write what they think.
You don't know how many times I've argued with Ronnie about the historical shortcomings of his theories (he can confirm) and I think exactly like you about this (and Ronnie knows it very well).
What I wrote is different, that is, that any user is free to write his opinion (within the limits of respect) and must not be limited in this.
Not on the topic of the comment.
I'm not accusing anyone Luca, I simply wrote that for me a certain behavior is worse than another.
It is clear that you have resentment towards me because of the figures you have made that have never been digested.
But I assure you that I don't despise you (as you want to pretend) and I didn't want to attack or insult you.
Obviously you are completely free to believe it or not.
But frankly I kindly ask you to stop it. Turn the page.
bcs
I only contravene this once to clarify that I didn't want to argue with you in the slightest, nor do I think I did.
I only defended Durim from a note (if you don't want to call it an accusation, ok) in my humble opinion illegitimate, although I personally agree with you on freedom of expression.
That's all...believe it or not. Resentment is too deep a feeling for a person who is completely indifferent to me like you are, for me: the only thing that bothered me was the tone you used towards Durim, as well as the comment itself: as you can clearly see, I argue with everyone and about everything, sometimes I'm wrong, other times I think I'm saying quite sensible things...now, if you like, go ahead and bring up old discussions, as you did in your first reply, I repeat that I don't care what you think...I just said my opinion as I always do.
Now I'm (really) turning the page, since Lyon66 isn't replying to me and I like to talk about engines and not about your persecution obsessions... I hope you understand what I'm saying, then if you want to bring up old arguments to discredit what I write, believing so to "answer me in kind" please take a seat.
Until next time.
Ps you will notice how I overlooked the "figures" you mentioned and cited the certainly not the best ones you committed... the fact that you continue to bring up old discussions shows that the past weighs more on you than on me...
Now attack me, that's all you know how to do anyway.
Luca
You intervened simply because you wanted to make controversy as usual about nothing.
I didn't accuse Durim, I simply wrote that we cannot deny X person to write what he thinks.
Then whether what he writes is "valid" or "invalid" is another point.
It seems clear to me.
Then I repeat, where do you find insults from me towards you?
I repeat that I am not indifferent to you, just see who is always looking for whom.
If someone is indifferent to me (like you are to me) I don't really count it (except if he replies or quotes me).
And it's clear that this is not the behavior you adopt.
Then you start attacking again with what you consider insults (but which are actually compliments written by someone like you).
I don't want to discredit what you write, and as you can see I NEVER respond to your comments (except if it's in response to me).
May.
Ergo I don't think I have discredited you, you took care of that with your past behavior from my point of view.
The response in tone refers to when you respond in a certain way and I respond accordingly. That's all.
Turn the page Luca and keep this tone and who knows maybe one day I will reevaluate you (but it will be very difficult).
I'll also make one thing clear to you: to "despise" there must have been some sort of esteem before this contempt, which frankly I've never had towards you given the (hopefully former) way you behave.
Greetings Luca, turn the page, it's time and try to digest the meager figures of the past.
Hello.
Bcs (sorry for the capital letters)
“You intervened simply because you wanted to make controversy as usual about nothing.”
NO, I HAVE ALREADY ANSWERED, READ CAREFULLY: I DEFENDED DURIM FROM AN UNFAIR AND SAINTING COMMENT (YOUR).
“I didn't accuse Durim, I simply wrote that we cannot deny X person to write what he thinks.”
USELESS AND TENDEENTIOUS CRITICISM: YOU CONTINUE TO ATTACK ME AND YOU ARE FREE TO DO SO, SIMILARLY DURIM ATTACKS RONNIE'S THEORIES, INVITING HIM TO SHUT UP. THIS IS ALSO PART OF THE DIALOGUE.
“Ergo I don't think I've discredited you, you took care of that with your past behavior from my point of view.”
APART FROM THE FACT THAT YOUR ATTITUDES WERE CERTAINLY NOT BETTER, I SEE THAT YOU CONTINUE TO ATTACK ME ABOUT THE PAST... YOU HAVE CLEAR GRUDENCE AND YOU CONTINUE TO ATTACK ME BY CLAIMING THINGS THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CURRENT DISCUSSION.
ERGO YOU ACCUSE ME FOR FREE...BUT YOU DON'T WANT TO ADMIT IT.
“The response in tone refers to when you respond in a certain way and I respond accordingly. That's all."
MORE THAN AN ANSWER IN TONE, I WOULD TALK ABOUT A STRAW TAIL: YOU TALK ABOUT FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION BUT THOSE WHO YOU DISAGREE WITH YOU EITHER INVITE THEM TO CHANGE THE TONE (DURIM) OR YOU ATTACK THEM ON TOPICS EXTRANEOUS TO THE DISCUSSION, LIKE WITH ME.
“Turn the page Luca and keep this tone and who knows maybe one day I will reevaluate you (but it will be very difficult).”
EHM….WHAT IS NOT CLEAR TO YOU THAT I DON'T CARE ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK???
“I'll also make one thing clear to you: to “despise” there must have been some sort of esteem before this contempt….”
SO YOU DON'T DESPISE A RAPIST OR A PEDOPHILE WITHOUT HAVING ESTIMATE HIM FIRST???
EHM…..NO OFFENSE, BUT WHAT ARE YOU SAYING?
“…which frankly I have never had towards you given the (hopefully former) way you behave.”
YAY, ANOTHER FREE ATTACK!!!! THANK YOU.
“Goodbye Luca, turn the page, it's time and try to digest the meager figures of the past.”
SORRY BUT IF THEY HAVE PASSED WHAT DO THEY HAVE TO DO WITH IT? DO I BRING INTO YOUR PAST ATTITUDE??
I DO NOT THINK SO
….YEAH BUT YOU ARE NOT ATTACKING ME FOR FREE!!!
To conclude: this is not a polemic towards you, but just (as you say) a RESPONSE IN TONE!
Hello!
Luca
Here you are, what happened to the real you?
I don't think my intervention was unfair or pedantic, you yourself agreed with me on freedom of expression.
Where would I have attacked or insulted you (you brought up phantom insults, but frankly I don't read them)?
Durim attacked a user's freedom to write, not Ronnie's theories.
I no longer argue about Ronnie's theories, there is no point in doing so and on this I repeat that I think exactly like you.
But I wasted too much time arguing with Ronnie about his theories which there is no point arguing about (from my point of view).
Where do I invite Durim to change his “tone”?
I repeat, where did I attack you?
I won't attack you about the past, after your response I reiterated that I prefer to read Ronnie's theories (albeit bizarre and often with many gaps) than other things.
I simply consider a certain behavior to be much more serious than another.
I don't feel resentment towards you, I feel compassion towards you, which is very different.
The one holding a grudge is you and it's obvious.
I repeat if I wanted to discredit you or do what you want to pass off, I considered you.
But as you can see I have NEVER responded to your posts (except those in which I am mentioned).
You thought of discrediting yourself on your own.
You're certainly interested in what I think, just look at the mess you're carrying out.
Come on dear Luca, turn the page, you're heavy and you risk ending up (this is an example, not an attack) like those children who are refused a toy.
I won't say anything about contempt, your turning everything around is worthy of the best Ronnie.
I don't despise you Luca, I've never despised you.
Just as I don't have the slightest respect or respect for a user who behaves like you.
I pity you at the moment.
It's not an attack Luca, but I'm simply making it clear that I don't feel any real contempt or resentment towards you.
I can't prove it because you prevented me from proving it...
You don't bring up old events for the simple reason that it all started from there due to an oversight on your part.
But this oversight led to insult after insult.
And you brought home many little figures.
It doesn't seem to me that yours is an appropriate response, but rather your umpteenth indigestion that must pop up every now and then. I'm used to it by now.
Stop arguing about nothing Luca.
Turn the page, it's time.
You complain that I'm "discrediting" you but you're thinking about it yourself.
Too bad, I'm sorry to find old Luca again. I preferred you before.
thank you
Ps: I imagine you are a fan of Nicky (I am too) and I would like to point out that he tested the waters with Aprilia for the SBK.
bcs
Here you are, what happened to the real you?
PROVOCATION?….I DON'T SEEM TO HAVE INSULTED AND/OR DISRESPECTED YOU!
I don't think my intervention was unfair or pedantic...
I'M SURE OF IT, OTHERWISE WE WOULDN'T BE HERE TO DISCUSS IT.
…know-it-all, you yourself agreed with me on freedom of expression.
PRECISELY, THAT FREEDOM WHICH IN MY OPINION DURIM DID NOT DENY RONNIE: HE ONLY URGED HIM TO AVOID WRITING ABSURD THEORIES AND NEVER SUPPORTED BY VALID ARGUMENTS.
Where would I have attacked or insulted you (you brought up phantom insults, but frankly I don't read them)?
ATTACKING DOES NOT ONLY MEAN TO INSULT, BUT ALSO TO DENIGRATE: YOU DO IT CONTINUOUSLY, QUOTING AND REMINKING YOUR DISPRICE OR DISSENT TOWARDS ME.
But I wasted too much time arguing with Ronnie about his theories which there is no point arguing about (from my point of view).
I AGREE WITH THIS ATTITUDE, WHICH IS NOT TOO DIFFERENT FROM THAT OF DURIM WHO IN YOUR PLACE, INSTEAD TRIES TO OPEN A DISLOGUE, WHILE URGING RONNIE TO STOP WITH HIS CRAZY THEORIES
Where do I invite Durim to change his “tone”?
IN YOUR FIRST POST.
I repeat, where did I attack you?
READ ABOVE…
I won't attack you about the past....
SO WHY DO YOU KEEP QUOTING HIM??
….after your response I reiterated that I prefer to read Ronnie's theories (albeit bizarre and often with many gaps) than other things.
AND THEREBY? DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE GRATUITY OF WHAT YOU STATE?
I don't feel resentment towards you, I feel compassion towards you, which is very different.
STRANGE...YOU KEEP REPEATING IT, WHICH IS IN CLEAR CONTRADICTION WITH WHAT YOU STATE: COMPASSION IS A FEELING WHICH, IF REAL, IS NOT EXPRESSED...
The one holding a grudge is you and it's obvious.
NO, BUT IF IT MAKES YOU PLEASANT, JUST THINK ABOUT IT.
I repeat if I wanted to discredit you or do what you want to pass off, I considered you.
WELL, YOU KEPT ANSWERING ME FOR DAYS, IF YOU DIDN'T WANT TO CONSIDER ME, YOU FAILED GREATLY
You're certainly interested in what I think, just look at the mess you're carrying out.
ANOTHER SENTENCE THAT MAKES NO SENSE: I KNOW EXACTLY HOW YOU THINK, IF I ANSWER IT'S ONLY TO REPLY TO YOUR POINTS IN TYPE.
Come on dear Luca, turn the page, you're heavy and you risk ending up (this is an example, not an attack) like those children who are refused a toy.
LOOK, THERE ARE TWO OF US WRITING!!! AND NOW I ONLY ANSWER THE NONSENSE YOU WRITE
I pity you at the moment.
DON'T KNOW ME, YOU CAN'T, BUT IF YOU CAN BELIEVE IT, THAT'S VERY GOOD...THE FACT THAT YOU KEEP REPEATING IT, HOWEVER, LEAVES YOU TO IMAGINE SOME HURT.
It's not an attack Luca, but I'm simply making it clear that I don't feel any real contempt or resentment towards you.
AND HOW COULD YOU? EXACTLY AS FOR COMPATIENCE, YOU SHOULD KNOW ME... FROM WHAT YOU WRITE, I NOTE A CERTAIN CONFUSION.
I can't prove it because you prevented me from proving it...
YOU REALLY WANT TO TELL ME WHAT YOU FEEL ABOUT ME, EH?!? ANOTHER CONTRADICTION WITH WHAT YOU WROTE ABOVE...
And you brought home many little figures.
….THE PAST HURTS YOU VERY MUCH. SO MUCH GRUDENCE.
It doesn't seem to me that yours is an appropriate response, but rather your umpteenth indigestion that must pop up every now and then. Stop arguing about nothing Luca.
I ONLY ANSWER (POINT FOR POINT) TO THE NOTHINGNESS OF YOUR CLARIFICATIONS, IT IS YOU WHO KEEP MOVING FORWARD.
Too bad, I'm sorry to find old Luca again. I preferred you before.
DOES FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION APPLY ONLY TO YOU?...I CAN'T ANSWER EXCEPT BY GIVING YOU RIGHT? COME ON, MAKE SURE YOU DON'T EXAGGERATE...
thank you
PLEASE, I HOPE YOU FINISH WITH THIS PANTOMIME….
HAPPY HOLIDAY
Ps
I don't know how you know this, but thank you very much for the information regarding Nicky's future.
Happy holiday
It's not a provocation. But a simple observation.
It's actually you who, as usual, tries in every way to argue about nothing. I wasn't arrogant or unfair.
Durim wrote (I cut the central part):
“July 12, 2015
Durim.
Stop it? stop it?? you can't read anymore...
And please, don't you dare reply to me...I don't even want to read your comment"
This is wanting to prevent a user from writing what he wants. And everyone here is free to write what they want (within the limit of course) even theories based on nothing (as Ronnie's often are).
As you copied and pasted, it seems that I define you as "know-it-all", when in reality this is not the case, given that I wrote:
“I don't think my intervention was unfair or pedantic, you yourself agreed with me on freedom of expression.”
Since when does disagreeing with what a user writes equate to insulting or denigrating?
You wrote that some insults came from me, but frankly I don't read insults.
You wrote:
July 15 2015
LucaR .
Bcs
…I thank you for the insults and contempt you harbor and covertly show towards me. Nowadays, at least inappropriate.
As for denigrating, you can think about that on your own. I repeat that if I wanted to denigrate you, I considered you even when you didn't respond (YOU) to my comments or various quotes.
But as you will notice, I only respond to you if you quote me or respond to my comments.
If I wanted to denigrate you or contradict you out of bias, I would behave in a different way.
But, I repeat, I don't count you even when you don't respond to my comments.
Whoever is the cause of his pain should cry for himself, dear Luca.
It is you who demonstrates certain things to other users with your behavior.
Actually in the first post I wrote:
“little note for Durim:
Ronnie is free to write what he thinks and what he wants. If you don't want to read it or what he writes bothers you, just ignore it.
But he MUST be free to write whatever he wants.
It's his point of view (some points I agree with, others I don't, like when he writes about the tire revolution this year, when in reality the real revolution happened last year... Jorge's statements).
Everyone is free to write as they think and if the user is not to their liking, they are not considered.”
I don't think I invited Durim and changed the "tone".
But simply not to consider it in case of little "liking" towards the user, but not to limit his freedom of expression.
Quoting does not mean attacking, I simply put two behaviors on your plate and explained which of the two I consider more serious. And quoting him I also wrote to you that I have no rancor, no hatred, or anything else towards you.
But simple compassion because this is what you gave me the opportunity to feel towards you.
I repeat that I will reply to you if you reply to me directly or quote me, turning what I wrote and trying to pass it off as attacks against a user when they are not.
If you answer me, I'll answer you (it's my right to do so, as well as yours).
I don't think you know how I feel about many topics (and you've proven it several times).
You write as usual to make controversy about nothing, simply every now and then your indigestion pops up.
Turn the page Luca.
I actually respond to the bullshit you write towards me.
Note WELL who for the umpteenth time (as always) has searched for whom.
It's certainly not me.
Rancor is one thing, compassion is another.
And I don't feel any hard feelings towards you.
I just pity you.
You are the one who brought up the fact that I feel resentment/hate etc towards you, and I made it clear to you what I actually feel for you, as a user.
I wasn't interested in letting you know, but I made it clear to you that what you think doesn't correspond with how I feel towards you.
I don't know you as a natural person, but as a user here I know you very well (like everyone else).
The past is obvious to those who burn (and a lot).
AHAHAHA I'll go ahead because if you reply by trying to insinuate or pass off certain things, I'll clarify your doubts.
And where did I write that you can't answer?
I advised you dear Luca to move on, that's all.
It is obvious who started (as usual) the pantomina causes indigestion.
Ps:
You're welcome.
As I know, I won't write it, it's better to avoid further useless discussions.
What I know is that he offered and tested the waters to race an Aprilia motorcycle in SBK.
But it's not the only house he offered himself to.
Frankly, I would team Melandri Hayden on the new R1.
Thanks for the good holidays.
But for the record, I inform you that I will not be taking a holiday.
I took my holidays in May and will do them again between September and October.
Happy holidays to you then.
Dearest, I have just returned from my holidays and I find you right on time, with yet another sentence: if you don't want to talk about insults, you certainly cannot deny that every time you try to dredge up the past, to discredit what I say... not so much for the substance of the concepts that I express (freedom of expression, including criticism of Ronnie and incitement to stop with absurd speeches) but because I once attacked you by mistake...
Evidently if, if you don't know how to attach yourself to anything else, you don't have much to say... evidently if you continue with this story, you are unable to argue your reasons, and you try to take refuge in a past mistake which, for the record, you also saw as rude protagonist.
Having said that, the post against Ronnie was legitimate in my opinion, argue this if you want... if you are capable of it. Otherwise learn to shut up!!
Hello
Ps I don't think there would be any point in discussing the information on Hayden...and I certainly wouldn't do it. Anyway, thank you
Sometimes it has happened to me too to be verbose but... lately I find papyri so long that, even if interesting..., after 4-5 lines I skip over...
It's a great effort to get to the end and understand the meaning of the speech...
A nice quick summary, right?
I fully agree: sometimes we believe that the more we write, the better we will be able to argue our thoughts...I believe it is better to be concise and surgical in explaining the fundamental concepts.
The whole discussion would become clearer...