MotoGP Argentina: Marc Marquez, “With the extra-hard tire we wouldn't have been able to fight for the victory”
The reigning champion explained the reason for the hard rear choice on his Honda RC213V
MotoGP 2015 GP Argentina Honda Repsol – Marc Marquez returned to talk about the Argentine Grand Prix, which saw him unluckily involved in a fall after a contact with Valentino Rossi with two laps to go. Unlike the nine-time world champion from Yamaha, the Honda rider had made a different choice of tyres, opting for the hard and not the extra-hard used by the Pesaro rider and brought specifically by Bridgestone for the Termas de Rio Hondo circuit. Many (with hindsight, ed.) criticized the choice of the four-time world champion, who however explained this decision on his blog.
“It was a shame to end the Argentine Grand Prix in that way, but I can say that it was still a weekend in which I learned a lot. It's always a privilege to fight against Valentino (Rossi, ed.) and this time he won the battle. He is a great champion and has great experience, so you can always learn from him. I can only congratulate him and hope that there will be another good battle in Jerez."
Marquez then "touched" the topic of tire choice, here are his words. “After the race some people asked me why I didn't use the extra-hard tyre, but the truth is that we wouldn't have had any chance of fighting for the victory with that. We had clearly seen that the only way to fight for victory was to use hard. At the beginning I gave everything, reaching a 3/4 second lead and in the end we lost with only 2 laps to go. However, these types of races teach us something, there is always a positive reading and now we will focus on Jerez."
Photos: Alex Farinelli
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BUT nooo marc…listen to Ronnie hahaah!!!! Get advice from him for Jerez ;)
you took the post out of my hands ;-)
Be careful, don't be fooled by the fake do-goodism of Vale and Marquez and read their statements carefully:
Marquez: "There is always something to learn from Rossi..."
Rossi: “Marc is like that, he always plays all in.”
In reality, rather than the fall, the two are referring to the first contact: NOBODY WONDERS WHY MARQUEZ ENDED UP ON ROSSI????
In full curve????
The Spaniard played hard, believing that with the touch Rossi would lift the bike, but Vale kept it down!!!
Marquez tried to play hard with Rossi, trying to intimidate him, but he didn't succeed...now they're friends, but it's war.
And Rossi responded in kind to the Spaniard.
..I think you're right..
Marquez is the only one of this generation to ride fearlessly in melee. He thrives on contact because he has great control and is smart.
Except that Rossi was one before him, and now both have found their match.
Rossi won't give up because he has an opportunity to win the world championship and he knows it better than anyone. He has reduced Lorenzo to size, he has no pressure and is still capable of managing it.
Marquez is the present and will be the future, he will also learn Valentino's latest tricks, we will witness great challenges... with fake smiles and pats on the back.
I must admit that despite admiring both of them a lot, seeing Marquez scaled down on the track... made me happy... but now he will be even stronger and more attentive. He won't go to waste like so many others...
May the best win!!
Forgive me Marc but I don't believe what you said (which I reported yesterday on this site in further discussion).
I believe Ronnie.
I don't believe you, Suppo, Redding (who used them in the race) or even Cal. You who race on those motorbikes and "tweak" with them. I'm sorry but I believe Ronnie.
Hahaha I really don't understand how anyone can go against the pilots' statements. That is, if Rossi had had the same pace as Lorenzo, Marc would have won by 4-5 seconds over Dovizioso and Ronnie would have told us that the hard was the best solution hahah. Let's remember that ONLY Rossi went strong with the extra hard…ONLY ROSSI. People don't understand how much Rossi's feat is to be praised. Being 4.5 seconds behind MARQUEZ (not just anyone) and having the psychological strength to try, the concentration to try and succeed is something phenomenal. It's not the victory itself, but trying to recover 4.5 seconds from Marc. How many, after overtaking 6 riders and being second, would try to catch up to the one in front of you who is 4.5 seconds away? Only Rossi and Marc are crazy enough I think. Rossi made the difference, he is in wonderful "psychological" shape. As Rossi suffered Lorenzo in 2013 after 2 dark years, Lorenzo suffers such a strong Rossi.
It's truly incredible how he manages to find the motivation to continue running, training every day when he already has everything.
When Pedrosa returns it will be a really good championship with maybe 6-7 riders competing for the podium.
Yes, well, then don't believe anyone... they certainly know how to do their job and if they had seen that the extra hard ones were more competitive, they would have used them...
A little modesty come on…
You just can't get there, huh?
Have you read what Ronnie writes? And what do I really think?
Mine is irony, and it is obvious that I believe what Marc says.
Then obviously you have the need to argue with me, fortunately in different tones compared to some time ago... Right?
He's stronger than you, commenting without having the slightest idea (just read my subsequent comments).
Ps: I'm pleased to note that after yet another little figure you've changed your tone (do you remember your comments in the article relating to Dovi's pole in Qatar?), and I'll point out for the umpteenth time who was looking for whom.
Oh you say something to say the opposite????
Hahaha okay, I won't comment, obviously we should read every post of yours to find out what you think...
But this is your problem, and you can't expect someone to read every one of your posts, don't you think????
Keep it down, your IQ is lower than your presumption….eheheh
PS
Anyway, I haven't looked at Quatar's post again and I don't know what you replied... but I'm pleased to see that you're always ready to start a controversy, if I were only half of what you think, you'd avoid starting a controversy here too, given that I'm certainly not doing it...congratulations, you've shown yourself to be the disgusting person you are.
Now I say goodbye because I have better things to do. Don't worry, see you next time.
I am pleased to note that you once again confirm that you are the fox of the site (we all know the story of the fox and the grapes... And you are proof of how a first class fox behaves).
Let's see what I wrote:
“Forgive me Marc but I don't believe what you said (which I reported yesterday on this site in further discussion).
I believe Ronnie.
I don't believe you, Suppo, Redding (who used them in the race) or even Cal. You who race on those motorbikes and "tweak" with them. I'm sorry but I believe Ronnie."
You really don't understand the irony, but I'm not surprised.
Doesn't it seem senseless to you to write that you don't believe all the riders who ride that bike (and who race it and who have made certain statements) and people who "play around with it"?
All you had to do was scroll just below to confirm your thesis or not, but you grabbed the first opportunity to make a controversy (I'll point out who searched for whom...).
I don't even count you (except when you respond to what I write) for a simple reason, I have a clear idea of what you can contribute to the discussions.
I would also like to point out that you are not new to these skinny figures, who knows why....
Another small thing, you are the only one who didn't understand the irony of the comment. The only one…..
You should ask yourself some questions.
Once again, what you think are insults turn out to be compliments to all of us (keep in mind the story of the fox and the grapes)
Another thing to highlight is "who looked for whom", certainly not me.
I don't name you and I will never name you in my comments (seeing how I think of you... But fortunately by now we all know what you are like and what you can bring to a discussion), because unlike you, I don't want to have anything to do with you.
You write that you have better things to do, very well, you're not the only one, but why do you want to cause controversy at all costs every time you have the chance?
Who knows why.
I repeat that I don't like there being a "next time".
Also because it's not convenient for you, every time you cash in and take home some nice figures... But at least they help other users understand many things.
Hello fox.
I'll also leave you with the article relating to Qatar, so maybe your intentions come back to you:
MotoGP Qatar: Amazing pole for Dovizioso and Ducati, Honda and Yamaha chasing
Then, obviously, you are completely free to carry on with your manfrani, you will only increase the number of your beautiful figures.
Honestly, I'm astounded by your stupidity: do you really think I'm going to read every single one of your posts????
But who do you think you are? GOD??
I'm always pleased to note that you're ready to make controversy: I commented on your post, which in itself didn't make much sense like Ronnie's (which I only read later).
As I now comment on his, I have commented on yours. If you don't think like him, there's no point in continuing to argue with me.
Ps maybe you don't get it, but I'll explain it to you again: I haven't read your response to Quatar's post, as I'm not interested in the response of an idiot who causes the phenomenon...
I repeat: your presumption far surpasses your intellect.
Now I say goodbye to you, because you are a man of little content….see you next time poor SCEM0…..
I don't think I wrote that you have to read everything I write, but if you intervene you should at least have a clear idea of how a user thinks on a given topic.
Capturing the irony in my speech is very simple, provided you are able to do so, which you have demonstrated that you are not capable of.
I'll point out to you once again who searched for whom, I have no intention of arguing with you, to do so there must be a user on the other side who is able to carry on a discussion.
And you are not capable of doing it and your every intervention proves it.
In my opinion, however, you've read it, yes, you've read it, but you're simply not interested because it makes you make yet another impression.
You write that you don't care what I write, but whenever you can you prove the opposite.
Notice who searched for whom, like every time.
I think it's obvious to everyone that the lack of content is obvious.
I, however, reiterate that what you consider to be insults turn out to be compliments, given your stature as a fox, or rather as a king of foxes.
You insist on this "see you next time", apparently you want to continue adding little figures and increasingly demonstrate your level.
I repeat, I'm sorry, but once again you missed the opportunity to "not write"... You avoided yet another little trick and your relative gnawing (because it's clear that after having made you do the first little trick, you don't miss the opportunity to intervene and confirm what we all think about you now).
In the discussion:
MotoGP Qatar: Amazing pole for Dovizioso and Ducati, Honda and Yamaha chasing
You had very different intentions (then peppered with a bunch of phrases that didn't match the reality of the facts), but I notice that you've changed your mind now...
The gnawing is at the highest levels.
It's a shame, I'm sorry to note that you use every means at your disposal to confirm the opinion that several users have towards you.
Hi Fox
Of course it doesn't fit your mind at all, with the Hard he scored zero points... and he was in the lead and could have finished second, but they bet and lost the bet, it was partially won if they brought home the 20 points , but they made 0, lost bet...
Then maybe or certainly if they were so sure of it they wouldn't win with the Extra-Hard but they never covered the race distance with that tyre, so I don't think they would have done too badly given the times set again in the Warm Up...
Then you can come and tell me that no one has gone as fast as Rossi, true, but no one is in Rossi's state of form (Marquez and perhaps Dovizioso in particular), and above all none of the 3 who lead the world championship and not even Marc Marquez has used the Extra Hard apart from Rossi…
Even Lorenzo, who for now, statements from the beginning of the season aside, doesn't seem to be in very good shape to me, ran badly at the end with the Extra Hard, in fact he was better than those who had the Hard... in short, to say that he was certainly worse than a Hard that he made 0 points... you do it ;) but these are considerations with hindsight, and unfortunately there won't be a 2016 season in which they will propose these tires again just to see what they would do in Honda next year, sorry :P
get hired by HRC ;) you deserve that job!
But what a gamble... imagine if a team like HRC with Marquez in the saddle has to "bet"... at these levels then... the issue was explained by both the rider and Suppo, with the extra Hard tire they had no chance of winning the race and opted for the other compound with the intention of putting as much distance as possible between the pursuers in order to manage the advantage at the end of the race, and in fact they had succeeded so Honda's choice was perfect, what messed up the plan was not Rossi's recovery and victory but the contact between Rossi himself and the Repsol rider... in practice Honda started knowing that the only way to try to win was to escape at the start of the race, push immediately and break away from the others in such a way that even a probable better pace from Rossi at the end would have easily allowed Marc to win or at least get to the podium...they gambled for the victory to secure the podium...and they would have succeeded if it hadn't been for race contact
I'm out of luck but what bet?
You described the bet throughout your post…
They opted for the Hard, aiming for victory, because they were certain that they wouldn't have made it with the Extra Hard. That's the gamble, aiming for victory even knowing that they would still find themselves in difficulty, they still aimed to win even though they knew it would be extremely difficult. However they gambled but without risking everything, because they made the choice of last season instead of believing in Bridgestone and following its advice, in short they risked too little by trying to have a race like last year, Rossi instead he risked more, bet everything on another type of race and won.
You say "with the Hard he scored zero points"... the world logic instead thinks that "with the fall he scored 0 points.."
Stonami I agree it's the fall that caused him the zero points, but the fall is the result of the pressure of having to stay in front to defend himself, after having done everything possible and the frustration of having been caught up and overtaken and not accepting "defeat", Marquez doesn't accept this for now, he always tries everything for the victory, he doesn't want to be second on the podium, he often prefers to lie down rather than bring home the points, he always tries, even when perhaps he should be satisfied .
Furthermore, this year he didn't start with one victory after another, so perhaps he shouldn't always attack but come out on top over distance.
Marc crashed because he was caught, and he was caught because Rossi went faster.
Maybe he would have crashed even with the Extra-Hard but if what they say is true, he would have played a defensive game to bring home the result and not an attack like this one.
Marc's fall is the result of the choice and the history of that race, and of how he certainly felt frustrated by Rossi's recovery, because that condition is never good, when you know that you have done everything and everything is not enough, but you still want to gamble and sell your life dearly.
From their statements they knew that after half the race it would be tough, but they tried that path anyway, only that not everything went as best as possible and here lies the lost bet. They took it for granted that Marquez was holding on and thinking and not acting on instinct, but instead he wasn't calculating and lay down. But to say that the crash had nothing to do with the Hard chosen, and the race tactic chosen, I don't think is entirely correct, that zero is the result of the choices made and the mistakes made, by Honda and by Marquez.
Ronnie...you're so dense. The tire has nothing to do with the zero points or the crash. His fall doesn't even depend on the pressure...Marc is certainly not afraid of Rossi, don't believe it. Marc crashed many times last year too, whether in Misano, Aragon or P. island and he doesn't feel the pressure...it just happens when you drive at the limit.
In this case it was a racing accident... he said so. Things that happen... the tire doesn't fit, the pressure doesn't hit, etc.. stop making wild assumptions. You're boring and stop saying the same things in every topic for 3 days now. Damn :(
Durim, everyone suffers from pressure, because they are not robots they are human beings, Marquez knocked himself out several times for different reasons.
At Philip Island he crashed due to the choice made as the front tyre, choosing a new compound, the asymmetric front which worked very well with the high temperatures, but the temperatures dropped during the race, Marquez stopped pushing to the limit because he had a excellent advantage, the tire cooled on one side and fell when braking, which had happened to several riders, because that tire was new like this one, the problem is that that was a new asymmetric tire never made before for Phillip Island, the asymmetric did not exist for that circuit and was introduced last year after the 2013 disaster caused by the fact that the track had been resurfaced with a new, more abrasive surface.
Maybe that's also why Marquez didn't dare take risks here and they went on the Hard...
Who knows…
Marquez in Argentina drove at the limit from the first to the last lap, perhaps he had given up on the oars a bit at a certain point, feeling confident shortly after Rossi had become second.
To say that he didn't suffer from the pressure I think is false, it's not a question of fearing Rossi rather than Lorenzo or Dovizioso or Pedrosa, it's that you're in a race situation where everything went well for you, you gave your all, and someone is keeping you coming back even though you are giving everything and this is frustrating, even for a professional like Marquez, maybe you should try it firsthand to understand. It's humiliating for a rider to suffer that type of comeback, so no Marquez is not exempt from this dynamic, his mistake and his impetuosity derive precisely from this. But separating the Hard tire from Rossi's comeback is crazy, it's clear that the decline in Marquez's tire caused or facilitated Rossi's return, who didn't have that tyre.
It's clear that after a race in the lead, someone like Marquez doesn't want to lose and tries, he did impossible laps with a finished tire that the others with that tire dreamed of at the end of the race, as he did on the pole lap last year. last year and again this year crazy and unattainable for the others, they simply chose perhaps to the best of their possibilities or what they thought were their possibilities, but certainly that choice to use the Hard then caused the accident with Rossi , because it is only thanks to the Hard that Marquez was able to start so fast, make a gap, and then be caught again, how can you deny this? How can you separate Marquez's Hard tire from Rossi's Extra Hard and say that it didn't affect the fact that the two found themselves in that corner at the same time?
Of course, it doesn't bother you at all that the zeros aren't the result of a tire that has "flaked" or with abnormal wear... Or in any case a tire problem.
The zero was due to Marc's enthusiasm (an enthusiasm that allowed and will allow him to win tons of titles), not from a destroyed tire or one that gave up on him.
So stop with this thing, because it's clear that you're scrambling to defend your umpteenth theory which is denied by those who use, test, test, run at 350 mph on that bike.
Then write what you want, but the reality is different and they have declared it (Cal, Suppo, Marc and Redding).
“With the extra-hard tire we wouldn't have been able to fight for the win”
End of speeches.
bcs but where did I write that the tire was completely destroyed or devastated? It was in worse condition or much worse than the Extra-Hard and incidentally, maybe it wasn't as bad as Rossi's in Austin given the times he set, but I think it was more Marquez taking a big risk than the tire that brought out those times, in in any case Rossi in the center of the curve if the indications on the screen were correct had 5-10km/h more travel in the center of the curve at least in the right curves therefore he had a front and a rear in better conditions, given the acceleration at the moment of the the rear also fell at the end of the race, meaning the Extra-Hard allowed more power to be put to the ground.
Marquez would have won if Rossi hadn't been on the track, but to say that he fought for the victory I don't know if it's entirely correct.
He was in front because Rossi was slowed down by Iannone at the start, otherwise he would have remained there in front for much less time and perhaps he would not have fought for the victory at all.
To say that it was not the Hard tire that caused Marquez's fall is very superficial, Marc did not fall because that tire did not allow him to finish the race, I agree with this, but Marc fell because he tried to resist when he had to settle for 20 points, but often he isn't satisfied when he's second, he often doesn't want to finish on the podium as second, he prefers to lay down second place, he doesn't accept it easily, and it's been that way for a while. I don't think it's correct to say that the Hard tire didn't influence the result. Marc fell because he was recovered, and he was recovered because his tire was in worse condition than Rossi's at the end of the race, not due to a physical decline or of the motorbike, but of the tyre, and he fell down because he was recovered, because he did not fall alone, he fell in contact with Rossi's motorbike, if he had not ended up in contact with Rossi's motorbike he might have ended it, but these are useless assumptions.
What is clear is that with the Hard he scored 0 points, with the Extra Hard he couldn't have done worse and 50 but you don't want to accept this concept...
No, please Ronnie don't start talking.
If you write that the 0 in the ranking is given by the tire it means that this tire fell apart or was destroyed in such a way that the race could not be completed.
And this is not the case.
The 0 in the ranking was not caused by the tire (the tire did not lose pieces, was not destroyed and had no problems with abnormal wear, and only these factors lead to having a zero in the ranking due to the tyre).
The zero in the standings is not to be attributed to the tyres, but to Marc's enthusiasm (and I love him for his philosophy of "always trying", a bit like the riders I admire) which this time did not allow him to give we fans had a good fight.
Attributing zero in the standings to the tire is equivalent to writing: "It scored zero points due to an engine with many Km on its back" (It's an example, also because I have no idea how many Km that engine has, it's just to make understand).
You write:
“…Marc crashed because he tried to resist when he had to settle for 20 points,…”
Well, it didn't fall because the tire was destroyed or because only the rim was left on it.
It's not that we don't understand your concept, I understand it very well. It's yet another twist of yours that you use to justify your umpteenth theory which is not proven by what those who use and race that motorbike have declared.
The only tire that allowed him to win was the Hard, not the Extra Hard, on their bike, on this track, it didn't work properly.
For me there is little to discuss and the matter is very clear.
bcs here you are turning the tables I never said that the Hard didn't allow you to finish the race, but it certainly didn't allow you to win with Rossi on the track with the Extra Hard because in the end Rossi won and he did it with the Extra Hard and all those with the Hard ended up behind, Marquez crashed, then Dovizioso, then Crutchlow then Iannone and then Lorenzo who, however, I'm not sure if he lost because of the Extra Hard or because he's simply not in shape or in tune with the bike given that 3 races out of 3 are subpar and this is the first time the tire has been changed but the result was similar...
It's not true that you could have won with the Hard, because no rider has won with the Hard, and I can't tell you if Marc won with the Extra Hard, maybe he scored 0 points equal to who knows... but with the Hard he lay down and lay down because he perfectly executed the tactics decided by him and his Team and he wasn't satisfied. But as I wrote to Durim, to say that the Hard and the choice of the Hard did not influence the crash is to deny the obvious, without the Hard the contact at that moment of the race, with that recovery by Rossi and the two in that corner there is no you had them, it goes without saying that Hard has nothing to do with it. If Marquez hadn't crashed into Rossi, he would have finished the race but couldn't have won it, he didn't have the pace, he would have given up like Dovi or he would have had to knock Rossi down or off the track, which by the way he tried to do, but he lost out …
So it doesn't even seem right to me to say that he could have won with the Hard because we saw the race and Marquez didn't win and no rider won with the Extra Hard... I don't understand why we continue to argue about the obvious...
With hindsight, in my opinion, Honda with Marquez should have chosen the Extra Hard, perhaps they would not have won, but in my opinion we would have seen a perhaps more interesting battle at the start of the race and during the race, perhaps not between Marquez and Rossi but between Marc and other pilots certainly do…
“Marquez didn't win and no rider won with the Extra Hard…”
Correct is:
“Marquez didn't win, BUT a rider won with the Extra Hard…”
Then Ronnie don't write sentences like:
“…..it couldn't have been done worse than 0 points, and it can't be done…
We saw how the race with Hard ended..."
Which more or less modified you have repeated several times.
The 0 is not due to the rubber.
If you score 0 points because of a tire it means either that it is faulty, destroyed, etc.
And Marc's tire could take him to the end of the race without any problems.
True, Rossi won, but what bike does he ride?
It doesn't look like a Honda to me, or am I wrong?
Where did the other riders who mounted the Extra Hard end up?
The HONDA riders, because Marc is a Honda rider if I'm not mistaken, what did they say?
All of them, not just one.
Honda could only challenge for victory with the Hard, and they mounted that.
But do you think they choose the tire that works worse after trying them both?
They declared that it didn't work on their bike and certainly with the Extra Hard they couldn't play for the victory and that the only tactic they could do to win was to escape at the start of the race and then manage.
If Marc gave up and let Rossi go (not like Marc) he wouldn't fall.
Marc made the mistake, it's not the tire that left him stranded, a few balls*.
Exactly, there is no point in arguing, things are clear, very clear.
Above all, both in hindsight and in hindsight, the Honda men (including the riders) were very clear about the two tires and which of the two worked best on their bike.
@Ronnie
Sorry, can you satisfy my curiosity? What do you think Marquez would have done with the extra hard tire? What pace would he have kept?
If you claim that he would have gone faster than with the hard, you obviously claim to be more competent than the HRC driver and technicians….
However, I am very curious about your answer.
Luca certainly wouldn't have gone faster in the first part of the race, but in the second he would have been more consistent, I don't know if he would have gone faster on the lap at the death, he certainly would have kept a faster pace.
Let's say we wouldn't have seen the same type of match, but that doesn't mean we couldn't have played it.
Rossi had to play a race entirely on the attack, I'm not sure that Rossi would have forced so much and I don't think at all that he would have tried to create a void and force so much.
We saw when Dovizioso on a Ducati resisted Rossi, in short, in my opinion, based on how the race went with Marquez on the Hard, there would have been a slightly more compact group with Dovizioso, Marquez and Rossi in contact and separating the others, and second but they would have stayed together for a very long time, it would have been a more strategic race, perhaps even more boring, but I don't think we would have seen either Marqeuez go 1.39 at the start of the race or Rossi 1.39 on the twentieth lap.
But it doesn't matter, the race was run and Rossi won and maybe he would have won anyway but it would have been a different race.
Ok, so in your opinion they made a mistake in HRC by fitting a tire that was too soft?
But don't you think that having done the simulations the previous days, the Honda technicians estimated that they would have covered the race distance faster with the hard tires?
After all, Rossi said that they make the choice of tire this way: by comparing the time of the race simulation.
Furthermore, with three laps to go, Marquez set a low 1'39, a sign that the pace was probably not too bad: he would have won by 5" on Ducati and 10" on Lorenzo, if Rossi hadn't been there!!!
And again: who tells you that Honda and Marquez would have made the extra hard work well too?
I repeat: you make the choice of tire based on the race simulation time, and as Rossi, for his guidance, was more effective with the extra hard tyres, so much so that he noticed it immediately, your statements would imply a gross and inexplicable error on Honda's part ….
Given this statement, you should at least explain the reason that pushed Marquez to make that mistake, otherwise your theory is difficult to explain.
However, I am pleased to note your intelligence in expressing your ideas, unlike your other interlocutor.
;-)
Dear fox, you write (just above) that you don't care what I write, but you constantly have me on your keyboard.
You complain to Ronnie, but I point out that you and I have never had a serious discussion, this is because you started insulting me from your first intervention, and every time you wanted to reiterate your level and stature.
Patience, but if you write certain things I'll respond in kind, you're in trouble with me.
However, I am happy to have brought out your level.
Fine, I no longer want to have anything to do with you (unfortunately I can't write the opposite) with the terms you like to use so much. It's not pleasant for me to spend the little time I spend replying to you and which you honestly don't deserve.
Your intentions were very different, but with the facts you prove that you are just a wordsmith with a very poor basis in this sport.
Patience, when that great driver that is Rossi retires, elements like you will also disappear.
_
Ronnie
Everything you write is very true, but there are always the statements of all the Honda riders and men.
That is, the Extra Hard tire didn't allow them to play for the win and the only move they could make was to run away and manage.
Which Marc did very well (and in fact he managed a lot and according to his statements, when he saw that Rossi was approaching he saved as much as possible. And to check the grip of the tires he had thrown a time there).
Then he got carried away and fell due to too much enthusiasm, but this is also the beauty of Marc.
There would be no fantastic qualifying lap in Austin.
Of course, he remains the favourite, but on this occasion he made a mistake which caused him to pocket a nice 0 instead of 20 points (or whatever).
So Luca, the Warm Up simulation clearly demonstrated that Marquez was much faster at the start of the race or at the start of the test with the Hard on the rear, the problem is that he made better times and would have gone faster and would have won the race if had been held on the morning of the Warm Up and would have improved last season's time run with the same tire by 4 or 5 seconds.
The problem is that the race was held in the afternoon with higher temperatures.
However, with the ExtraHard, even in the warm up, in the first laps he was faster than Rossi, so he was fast, even with the Extra Hard, faster than Rossi in the first laps, then he stopped, took the other bike or mounted the Hard and he took the time down again by perhaps 1 second.
In short, with the Hard he was very fast in the early stages, even faster in the morning of the race.
The problem is that in the race, he no longer set the morning times while Rossi maintained and improved his morning times over the race distance.
This meant that the Extra Hard worked better in high temperatures than the Hard, and that Rossi went faster as the laps went by, while Marc went slower as the laps went by.
Marquez would have finished 2 or 3 seconds better than last season in terms of final time, I believe with the same choice of tires and an extra year of experience and above all of bike development.
So Hard was also fast, like last season, but this year it wasn't enough.
Furthermore, I have never seen Marquez ride so hard at the limit except on the qualifying lap, while in the race he had to do one qualifying lap after another to make up the gap, certainly with the bike fully loaded and with different times, but very much at the limit he risked losing the front several times due to how much he forced himself when braking.
In short, I hadn't seen him do a race like this at the limit yet, for so many laps. At one point he slowed down when he was 4.2 ahead and Rossi's comeback was about to begin.
The problem is that Rossi could afford several laps at the limit with the Hard which didn't overheat easily while Marc had to manage it carefully. Furthermore, if you go and see Marc's partials you will notice how his times went up as the laps went by, and it wasn't even due to his mistakes, the slower laps were because he lost a little throughout the lap, so either he changed something on the bike, or he took a breather or he couldn't always ride at the limit.
Rossi perhaps only took a break during his comeback, and even there it wasn't a mistake, but a lap to catch his breath given that all sectors were slightly slower.
In short, Marc could run on 1.39 high pace while in the morning he also kept 1.38 high and 1.39 low pace, this is what changed from morning to afternoon.
I agree that Honda had calculated everything perfectly, too bad it seems really strange to me that Honda didn't calculate that with the higher but still not very high temperatures in the afternoon the Hard would not have given the same performance and would have performed like the Extra Hard... obviously apart from the second record lap and a few other laps by Marc in 1.39. low, but you can count Marquez's low 1.39 laps on the fingers of one hand, while Rossi clocked up 8 when he freed himself from traffic and especially after half the race and never went above 1:40 after the tenth lap.
The Hard did not allow for the consistency of the Extra Hard and this was the key to the race. Even Lorenzo, although he was slower, managed to maintain consistency.
The only one who had consistency was Dovizioso when he started following Rossi, but he was never able to attack him, he was always on the hook, and despite the wake and the trajectories drawn in front of him at a certain point he had to give up because Rossi forced further while Dovi was already hanging. If you look at Dovizioso's times you see the key moment in which the Hard tires gave up a little but above all Rossi's Extra Hard suddenly improved.
But does it seem normal to you that the more the laps go by the more the times go down and they do so with consistency which is not even attributable solely to the fuel?
bcs looking at the times and how fast he was and he was running in the same tenth Marquez I don't think he managed anything, he was running at a pace that certainly allowed him to lose the minimum, turn faster or he would make the tires worse or he risked making the mistake and lose more or the same way as regular turning.
In the end he threw 2 laps to the death but not consecutive but they weren't even as fast as Rossi's, in short, he couldn't resist or at least attack Rossi once he overtook him, or rather he could attack him but as we saw him do that is, coming into contact and swinging and forcing too much and making mistakes. Hard didn't give two impossible laps in a row, I don't think anyone could do them, the most consistent was Dovizioso.
Marquez could at most do 1.39.3 – 1.39.4 which was already a great lap but Rossi was on 1.39.1 – 1.39.2 so there was little for Marc to do Rossi had the advantage he already had over Dovi who has said that he was missing a little something despite the trail despite the trajectories in front of him to follow.
In short, after a certain point in the race the Hard was stuck on some times and if you ran it for too long, then you didn't have any more, Marquez with the laps at 1.39.8 certainly saved the tire on the times of 1.39.5 – 1.39.6 by Dovizioso, but just as Dovi had to give up, Marc should have done so too, even if he was close to finishing.
Marc no longer had a margin, Rossi yes, Rossi's tire had not suffered any wear despite the comeback, and I honestly can't explain this, I don't understand how his bike could have become so fast lap after lap, it cannot be explained solely by the petrol, he certainly drove beyond all limits seeing that he was catching up with Marc but such an improvement hadn't been seen since Stoner's time, I think, in the race.
I don't understand how you can write novels about hot air...Ronnie instead of writing meaningless sentences like "if you ran in the morning...instead you ran in the afternoon..." Cti just read what is written in bold and in quotation marks which more or less he says “With the extra-hard tire we wouldn't have been able to fight for the victory”
Ronnie
Forgive me, but this time I agree with what Stonami wrote.
Marc was very clear when he saw that Rossi was getting close to saving the tyres, and then checked their stability with a tight lap.
He didn't say he could win, but that he was saving to try to win (which he did, but crashed).
It was obvious then that Rossi was faster and Marc (without a crash) still finished 2nd.
You can't take Dovi as a comparison, it seems to me that Ducati and Honda are slightly different bikes, with two riders riding who are not exactly similar (perhaps they are at the extreme points).
You can only make a comparison with those who drive a Honda, and the riders (ALL, not just one, even those who used the Extra Hard) were clear.
Without ifs or buts, with the Extra Hard they had no chance of winning.
And this was declared by everyone at the end of the race.
For me there is little to discuss, the right tire for Honda in that race was the Hard and not the Extra Hard.
bcs you say he was managing, but if that were the case, why not give it your all and prevent Rossi's re-entry, look that Marc was caught 2 and a half laps from the end, if in 10 laps he could resist and remove even just a tenth from the lap on the pace he made a second, which would have been enough for him to leave Rossi far away or make him come back in the last corners, in short, it's bullshit that he had a margin, if he had had it for 10 laps in a row he would have used it and would have won...
Saying he had a margin is like saying he brought Rossi back on purpose at the end and I'm sorry but this is impossible...
PS I took Dovi as a comparison on the times, and what the Hard allowed you to do, and if you look at the times, Dovi is the one who ran best on the pace with the Hard at the end of the race, or at least while Rossi was recovering.
Marquez didn't do it, and you, reporting Marc's statements, maintain that he could have done what Dovizioso did in that moment of the race, i.e. run on 1.39.5-1.39.6 which would have prevented Rossi from returning and Marc to take the race home, and I believe that if Marc could have done it he would have done it but the Hard was the limit to his performances.
However, Dovizioso progressed by not forcing as much at the start as Marc and being able to force a little longer in the second part, Marc forced a lot straight away and was no longer able to do so for the rest of the race. The Hard didn't allow those paces for long, Marc had already taken out his, he could lap in 1.39.8 and do laps in 1.39.4 risking flattening himself, Rossi was doing faster and faster laps in sequence, in short Marc had no margin that would allow him to resist Rossi's recovery and no margin that would allow him to resist on the death lap, in short he had nothing to manage other than second place...
Ronnie
I don't write anything at all, Marc declared it, not me. (Perhaps!!!!!)
He didn't say that he had a margin, but that he was saving the tires for the final duel, and as I wrote to you above (I hope you've read it), given Rossi's state of form he finished 2nd, no ifs or buts.
Dovizioso rides another bike, very different from the Honda, it makes no sense to compare two opposite riders, who ride two completely different bikes and who have done very differently.
Dovi wouldn't have finished ahead of Marc, sorry.
Comparison that makes no sense.
A bit like Bautista's race and one random Honda Open are perishing.
These are Marc's statements (and frankly I believe him):
“When I saw that Vale was approaching I decided to save the tires a little, to save them for the final duel – admitted Marquez – at that point I went back to the low 1'39 to check that the tires were still in good shape . I knew we would fight until the end. When he caught me, however, we fought for a couple of corners and unfortunately we touched and I fell."
“…We started with the hard tire and not the extra hard because we knew we wouldn't be able to win with that option. When I saw that Valentino approached, everything was still under control. Then we touched..."
There is no doubt that Rossi had more and that without much beating he won.
Just as Marc wasn't in as bad a situation as some would have you believe (and I repeat, Rossi had more, but he certainly had 2nd position assured, with Dovi 3rd).
Just as the right choice for Honda was the Hard and not the Extra Hard.
From the statements made it seems that Honda in the warm up with extra hard was 3-4 tenths slower than Yamaha, hence the decision to use the hard, plus there are the end-of-race statements from all the Honda riders who declare the same thing and that is that the choice made was right. What more is a confession from the Most High????
@BCS
Sorry but now who's looking for who?
Mine was just an ironic observation made to Ronnie, you had nothing to do with it!…..um but didn't you say you had anything else to do than argue with me?
Nice shit life you must have, I'm sorry for you... anyway I'm sorry to disappoint your efforts: I DO NOT read your posts at all, you are a man poor in intellect and dignity, so I rarely continue to talk to someone who parrot keeps repeating the same things.
Come to terms with it: I don't really consider you, I ignore your posts, as they are rubbish like the one you have in your head... and as much as you may think you're giving me a hard time, you haven't understood that I don't really piss you off.
Now avoid looking for me, even if I know you will answer, but once again I repeat: I will not read the nonsense you write. Look for more pen pals, thanks…I have better things to do tonight. Having said that, I am also closing the discussion here with a demented person like you. I certainly don't find it interesting to start discussions.
Ole'!
@Ronnie
Sorry but your theory is flawed:
1. If Marquez worsened his times on the hard tyres, who's to say he wouldn't have done the same on the extra-hard tyres?
2. The race simulation takes into account the wear and tear of an entire GP, and therefore if they actually chose the hard one, they will have found some advantages, don't you think? The sum of the times must have been similar....don't you think?
3. Don't focus on six times: Marquez managed to lap fast at the end of the race with the hard tyres, but not with continuity, so the times on a single lap should be taken with a grain of salt. Otherwise Rossi wouldn't have approached so quickly.
4. What reason would MARQUEZ have had to choose the hard if he had found a better rhythm with the extra hard? What sense would there have been in taking risks to carry out an escape?… Marc is not Biaggi!
Free to think however you want, but these questions would remain unexplained....
Good evening
Since the discussion goes on for so long and I wanted to look at the race from your perspective, I reviewed it all.
After reading the latest posts with the riders' comments I also went to MotoGP to read what Marc and for example Miller said, since you give so much importance Miller said that his Hard was destroyed at the end of the race, now all statements to be taken into account with pliers, but simply said that it slipped a lot.
Marc said that he learned from Rossi regarding the fact that Rossi was the Extra Hard choice for attacking at the end and that he had not felt comfortable with that tire in practice.
Watching the race again, I heard the comments of the Swiss commentators who described the Warm Up, saying that Marc had started with the Extra-Hard and in those first laps he had been faster than Rossi, then in the pits he had made his change on the fly, jumping on the other bike and had lowered the times a lot.
But they too had doubts about Marc's choice of the Hard tyre.
I looked at the slow motion and the various shots of the moment just before the fall and after the fall of Marc's bike which they had sent to pause to judge Marc's rear tire which was already marked on both sides before the fall.
Furthermore, with the bike on the ground on the side opposite to the fall, i.e. the right, the side where it was slower and the compound was more under pressure, the wheel had what I would call a hole, so yes Marc's tires were in very bad condition, not then as perfect as has been said. He finished the race but didn't have the chance to put the power to the ground like Rossi.
At the start of the race, however, Rossi was the exact opposite at that point where Marquez touched himself, with Rossi falling, in the corner where Rossi made the overtakes, Rossi was unable to put the power to the ground and it was clear in the overtaking on Lorenzo what it happened when he tried to do it.
In short, at the start of the race those who had the Hard put a lot of power on the ground and were catapulted out of the corners well, and they took them faster at the end of the race - it was the opposite.
I would also like to add that Marc Marquez never did a real full race simulation with either of the 2 tyres, and instead of doing a real simulation with the Extra-Hard they did 4 or 5 laps and then finished with the Hard which they already knew from last season, so I'm sorry but it's impossible that they knew how the Extra Hard was going from mid-race onwards and precisely because they didn't know, they chose the Hard.
@Ronnie
Reading your posts is a pleasure: I honestly don't think like you, if not for the fact that I feel obliged to believe in Marc and Honda.
In fact, rereading your posts, I believe that what you say could be plausible, even if not so trivial. The fact that they knew well the behavior of the Hard, with which they had won last year and with which they were fast right from the start, is actually not a fact to be underestimated.
If this were the case, it would be a rather glaring mistake….although perhaps, if it were as you claim, the lack of knowledge of extra hard could have been another determining factor….
Good, maybe you saw something that all of us don't see and that Honda doesn't want to admit.
Fox
Just look at who is looking for who and who needs to make controversy, causing gnawing due to the too many skinny figures I made you do.
I repeat that given your level, what you think of as insults are compliments.
You write not to read me, but then how come every time you have the chance you prove the opposite?
If you respond in a certain way I will pay you back in your own coin.
your intentions were very different a few weeks ago, never mind... You can't calm down the gnawing at the little figures you brought home.
However, at least it served to highlight your level and the value you can add to the discussion.
That is, remind everyone of the little story "of the Fox and the grapes", remind us of the date and the most important element of the writer.
The rest is rubbish.
You never started discussions with me, from your first speech (in response to what I had written, where you didn't understand who wrote what) you started insulting, and continued to do so.
You should avoid looking for me, just read and see who's looking for who.
Your usefulness to me is clear and in fact the few times you write don't bother you.
The life I have is none of your business.
But this makes us understand many things about you. Insults, you intervene (with those you think are insults) in discussions where you don't have the slightest idea of who writes what and how he thinks and once they point out how much you've fallen out of the hole you continue on your line. Demonstrating your level and your usefulness, as well as your education.
I'm happy with how you behave, the more you write the better it is for everyone.
Hi Volpe, until your next reply (which will happen sooner or later, but don't worry, I will be happy to add yet another figure to the already numerous ones you have made).
Ronnie
What you write is all true and I agree with this, but there is a but...
Redding also used the Extra Hard in the race and clearly stated that it didn't work properly, and that for him too the best choice (in retrospect) was the Hard and not the Extra.
Just as all the riders were very clear in this respect.
The right and ideal tire for Honda in this race was the Hard, the only choice they could have made to win.
@bcs
…..eheheh scrolling I see that you continue to reply, but no one reads these posts anymore, and certainly not even me.
On the other hand, I know well that you read me, and therefore I don't miss an opportunity to call you a POOR IDIOT... I'm sorry for you but you have lost the comparison with me in every respect. See you next time SCEM0.
@Ronnie
I forgot: Rossi probably chose the extra hard because he was forced to, also given the outcome of the Texas GP...
What surprised me instead was Lorenzo's choice: absurd. In my opinion, he could have done well with the hard tyres...scrambling the Italian's tires less.
Until the next discussion.
Of course I will answer, I repeat that I do not turn the other cheek but I answer you in the same way as you.
If you turn to me I'll read you, otherwise I'll move on.
That's right, you don't miss an opportunity to make your beloved figures, and the related nibbles that they bring you.
Yes, in terms of baseness, lack of content, you beat not only me, but all the users of the site.
Don't worry, win with detachment.
You continue to insist on this "see you next time", a sign that you still want to start your "discussions" with me. Don't worry, I will be happy to continue to bring out your level more and more (both as a user and in terms of content).
You really are the king of the Foxes.
Ps: I remind you again that your intentions were very different, but apparently you demonstrate once again the value of what you write. Go lower and lower (it's difficult given your stature, but you can do it).
Ps2: Obviously if you reply to what I write I will read your comments (total and useless waste of time), but unlike other users who intervene in a certain way, I want to be very clear about who writes things. To obviously not confuse two different people.
Surely the Honda men as well as the riders have the elements to say that for them the Extra-Hard did not perform as well as the Hard, but it was like that for everyone in the first phase of the race.
I don't know if they made a serious mistake, let's say they evaluated the Extra-Hard without making it complete the race distance. I think this is what convinced them to use the Hard they already knew.
Rossi was also going 1 second slower per lap at the start of the race compared to the end of the race.
With the Hard, however, you immediately went 1 second per lap faster than with the Extra-Hard, and it is true that in the past in many circuits when this happened between the Medium compound and the Hard, the Hard was always discarded separately in rare cases .
The problem is that here the comparison was between a Hard and an Etra-Hard and therefore this trend could be assumed but not be certain without covering the race distance or almost, this tire was new and there were no terms of comparison.
As you said when reporting the official statements, the Honda riders said that it was the best choice to use the Hard, their feeling and the times set were certainly followed. It seems clear to me that the Hard gave more performance in the first half of the race, and then it faded or in any case remained stable but did not allow the pace of the first laps.
The Extra-Hard caused more problems at the start of the race while the more the laps went by the more the performance per lap increased. I think this is given by the stability of the performance of the tire which was guaranteed.
This was what in 2007 would be called rock rubber. In the sense that the performance remained constant from start to finish, no drop, the lighter bike gave more performance.
The Hard was more balanced, a little bit was lost, a little bit recovered with the drop in fuel.
I repeat, I don't know if with the Extra-Hard Marquez won or was second or worse, but without elements, without taking it to the end of the race, I can't judge it and from the times set in the test sessions it seems to me that none of the Honda riders tried it on the race distance or in a real long run, they stopped in the first laps and then always changed tires. They relied a lot on the feeling at the start of the test rather than on consistency of performance and on setting up the bike well as Rossi did.
Rossi bet everything on the Extra-Hard and won the bet, the Honda riders calculated the risks too much without actually testing the new compound thoroughly. It's normal in the sense that with Pedrosa Out and 2 practically new riders on this bike they certainly couldn't give safe indications on the new tyre. I don't blame Honda too much, they did what they thought was best with the elements they had in hand and I recognize that it meant gambling a lot to do what Rossi did, and after all it wasn't asked of them, they were sure of what they did last year and what they were doing this year anyway knowing that they would further improve their time over the race distance by 2 or 3 seconds, they felt safe.
Rossi improved by 9 seconds and this upset Honda's plans and calculations, but I repeat, with hindsight, I still think that if Marquez had used the Extra-Hard with conviction right from the start, it wouldn't have gone that way. bad, precisely because he rides an official motorbike and is Marc Marquez, not one of the others...
On the last part I completely agree with what you wrote.
But we don't know if the tire they used to make the comparisons was new or used (like Rossi's).
In my opinion, however, on this occasion they didn't screw up, they saw that the Extra Hard tire slipped too much for them (and slipping causes the tire to heat up too much as well as causing consumption that isn't exactly suitable). All data that we lack.
Honda is not a Yamaha and obviously the tire on the two behaves and wears differently.
Look at the other riders with the Extra Dura, if you take away Rossi the podium was done by all the riders with the Dura.
Rossi was the only one who made it work, or rather, Rossi's riding style allowed him to take advantage of these tyres.
To win, Honda could only fit the Dura, the Extra didn't work properly on their bike.
Obviously there is Marc on the track, but if you give him a tire that he doesn't feel and that doesn't give him confidence, he won't win. Indeed, the risk was to have a Lorenzo-style race, that is, not arriving.
it seems to me that Lorenzo used the extra h on the rear and that was it, while on the front he mounted a hard, so of those who are usually among the candidates for the top 4 positions only the reds mounted extra h extra h...
Poor SKARTO, you're the usual idiot who doesn't understand a thing but give yourself to football which is better..!! There is no extra-hard front, it's only rear.. Rossi mounted the same configuration as Lorenzo extra-hard at the rear, hard at the front. Here instead of extra hard there is only your head……….!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lorenzo rode medium in front and extra hard in back.
Rossi rode hard in front and extra hard in back.
But do you follow the races or do you pretend?
It's true Lorenzo had the average on the front, my memory betrayed me this time...
You've been acting like a phenomenon for 5 days and you didn't even know that Lorenzo had made a different choice....what a piece of shit@ ahahahaha
AHAH mine was an oversight but what about you..?? You should have the common sense to shut up, you invented a rubber that doesn't exist, this isn't an oversight, it's IDI0ZY as well as ignorance....
But do you know what you wrote? Or are you too stupid to realize it...? You also said that Lorenzo had a hard front, in addition to the pearl of the extra hard front for Rossi.. Can you realize in your dementia that if I made a fool of myself.. you did it 3 times.. Six truly a poor human case……….!!!!!!!!!!
@TONYKART
HAHAHA are you really talking about making a fool of yourself?????
I would like to remind you of something: October 18, 2014, after Valentino's terrible qualifying:
TONYKART: “You dreamed of being a stoner on his island, you woke up and reality is something completely different, ahahahahh nothing but victory....”
19 October 2014 Valentino wins at Philip Island for the sixth time in his career:
TONYKART: "If the others fall and give bad tires to your teammate, you'll see that you win the races too... how disgusting"
Poor idiot, shut up!
what memory, there are a lot of posts of yours that keep saying that Lorenzo had the same choice of tyres, and you praised Valentino for having won against Lorenzo who had the same tires and other people who had made the same choice, all people between other than that it never gets in front …….hahaha nice comparison
you better shut up because I'll spit on you myself
The content changes little. If he had the hard in front he would have had to be faster than Rossi in the first laps and perhaps have a drop at the end of the race. Lorenzo has always been slower than Rossi. Then Lorenzo always uses less hard tires than Rossi, both front and rear. Choices due to different driving styles, the tires do not explain either Rossi's excellent results or Lorenzo's disappointing ones.
@TONYKART
HAHAHA are you really talking about making a fool of yourself?????
I would like to remind you of something: October 18, 2014, after Valentino's terrible qualifying:
TONYKART: “You dreamed of being a stoner on his island, you woke up and reality is something completely different, ahahahahh nothing but victory....”
19 October 2014 Valentino wins at Philip Island for the sixth time in his career:
TONYKART: "If the others fall and give bad tires to your teammate, you'll see that you win the races too... how disgusting"
Shut up stupid
Durex you are
The most ignorant low level person I have read on this site, remains in the garbage that is your place.
CORRECT IT WAS FOR BESTLAP………..
POOR SKARTO…!! YOU CAN SEE THAT YOU ARE ULTIMATELY DEFICIENT.. YOU ARE REALLY A POOR IDIOT ON FREE RELEASE………………!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!